HOI 4 disappointing preview

[Werewolf13]

...HOI3 is playable using one of the few better mods but the core game has many issues. If they don't fix em in HOI4 I don't think you will have much fun, simple or not.

This is a great example of just what I'm talking about. HOI3 has issues. I'm sure it does but they're not issues that I've ever noticed and I've been playing the thing for the better part of 3 years now. The issues that it has are issues that only the truly dedicated will notice.

Those of us playing just for fun - well - I can only speak for myself and for me - I'm well past my dedicated/super grognard days. I'm in it for the fun of it and worrying about the details these days just isn't any fun (and I imagine that Paradox' marketing department has a bunch of research that would support that position or they wouldn't be going down the path they've chosen).

[eyegore]

I really liked HOI2. I often modded it so I could start earlier and play what-if's. to me it was their best HOI game. Then came HOI3. Aside from the bugs and map errors-which were huge (rains so long even noah would drown)-it failed on multiple fronts--mainly mechanics and presentation. Instead of making things clear on the main screen one had to dig for details. It was impossible to get a strategic sense-- the game showed hardly anything useful on the strategic side. They tried automating a lot of things-which again was a disaster because the A.I. screwed it up more times than not. The new tech tree threw out what was great in HOI2. Discovering a new tech in HOI2 was often a huge MOMENT! "AH my new aircraft carrier!" Now it was reduced to...Oh look...I have new snow shoes . There are no tech moments.

Then there's the whole thing about control. We control freaks want control over everything. We are in micromanagment heaven...but here the setup is so illogical it forces you to turn things over to the bad A.I. because it's so much work to do it manually. That is not progression. That's a bandaid over a badly thought out interface.

Unlike some companies however- they got on their mojo shoes and went to work ---not so much in fixing HOI3--I think the game is still awful- but Vicky2 was pretty good. then CK2 came and man...historical or not- what a fun game to play. And they hit another home run with EU4. So I'm kinda curious how HOI4 will turn out. To me HOI2 is just tops and still my favorite grand strategy WW2 game--so I wish them well in trying to top that.

[bairdlander2]

Very amusing and ironic to state "this video game is for kids" but "this one is for adults".Sounds like something a child/kid would say.Back to HOI4 and the complaint of ai control,this has been an optional feature since HOI3.Note that it is optional,also production,trade and tech can be ai controlled as well.I wont buy on release,but I will purchase it after a few patches.

[bairdlander2]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore


I cannot rate the Paradox games or even the Creative Assembly games above that level though.
I'd have to put Paradox and Creative Assembly games in the "entry" level editions with a slight edge toward "intermediate" level of play but nothing like a WitP or WitE or World in Flames for sure. Even TOAW III I would rate very high toward the advanced catagory. Battles in Normandy, Battles in Italy, even Ajoed games I'd rate a lot higher. So, while they may all be titled kiddie games in the sence you are promoting there are "levels" of kiddie games and that's where Paradox and Creative Assembly games stand now.

I wouldn't call the EU series,Victoria series or HOI series "entry" level strategy games.Have you ever tried any?Can you tell us which ones and the reason you consider them "entry" level strategy titles?[&:][&:][&:][&:]

[DOCUP]

It is a game.  I played HOI3 and went from that to WITP AE (love it).  HOI 3 wasn't a bad game.  It had some good areas.  From what I can see there are some nice things being put into this game.  Map looks good, love how you can scroll in and see the 3D troops and out to a more strategic view.  Giving orders looks nice takes away some micromanagement.   Making new units, it was that way with 3, I kinda like it this way better. 
 
The problem I have had with Paradox games is that they put them out before they are done.  It takes 2 or so patches to get them up to snuff. 

[DanSez]

I will pipe in again to say that the modding support and open LUA scripts for important parts of the game is HOI's big saving grace. I hope it continues with HOI4.

I have bought and played many hours the first 3 of the series. I have many of their other titles, CK2 being very shiny but not to my taste. To each their own and I hope that does not come across as elitist.

[battleground]

Other than convoys and once (and once only) where I sunk an enemy sub with my sub you never sink any ship with a submarine in HOI3. CV and BB captains just giggle at enemy subs.[:D]

You can have a lot of fun with HOI3 Tears of War/Vorwarts Panzer mod or the DWI (immersion) mod but all have the failings in the AI and especially in the Pacific war where it is I take your base, you take it back, I take it back, repeat.. Or you fight and
destroy the Japanese navy over a year by just defending Midway.

I really would look forward to a full World War by Gary Grigsby on a somewhat streamlined scale of WITP in the future before I fall off my perch.

[Greybriar]

I like beer and pretzels games. So I will probably buy Hearts of Iron IV when I can pick it up cheap in a compilation pack with all its DLC and expansions. [:D]

[wodin]

Well CK2 is one of my fav games and the coming DLC sounds superb..also EU IV is fun and that coming DLC also sounds superb..so I wouldn't say they are going downhill fast. AS for HOI being for kids..well it's beyond me to be honest. Infact I find the series one of the most complex grand strat wargames out there..

[major.pain]

I agree with you there Wodin, CK2, EUIII, EUIV i can play, not expertly, but understand and enjoy them.
Hearts Of Iron II and III i have tried over the years but they give me a head ache.
The new version oh Hearts Of Iron looks like something i might be able to wrap my head around

[gexmex]

I really enjoy CK2 alot, but I lost a lot of respect for Paradox when they canned their Cold War era game, and how they did it. Months and months of Johan and company emphatically the game would be released, and things moving along with very promising DDs. Then all of a sudden it got canceled with essentially no legitimate explanations as to why. Instead of charting new territory with a Cold War grand strategy title, they chose to go kick it to the curb and go with something they've tried 3 times already. It's boring, honestly. Despite the shiny new coat of paint and fancy ways to build divisions, what really changes? Paradox has just come up with a slightly different, prettier, easier way of doing the exact same things they've done before. And they've ditched the chain of command, which disappoints me greatly. That ship variant thing in the video is just a dumbed down version of the ship designer ripped off from the Cold War game. Sticks in my craw.

Having done all this ranting....I'm sure I'll cave at some point in the future and buy it when it goes on sale. I'm a sucker like that. [8|]

[aaatoysandmore]

Having done all this ranting....I'm sure I'll cave at some point in the future and buy it when it goes on sale. I'm a sucker like that.

Even I do that from time to time. I even caved and bought HOI III for $4.99 on Gamersgate I think it were. As I recall though HOI III was a mess at release (Japan invades France or was it Finland I forget) and within weeks it was $3.99. That's the 2nd game they've made that got horrible reviews and went extremely down in price after release. Who doesn't remember Victoria at .99 cents just a few weeks after release?

But, seriously if anyone ever wonders why I call it a kids game or childs toy just play Brazil. I was able to conquer South America, build up an amphibious invasion force, invade up throught the boot of Italy, take over northern Africa and the first to march into Berlin. With Brazil now the saviour of the world lol. While it may have some detailed and complex elements it doesn't take away what a child might want to see happen in a WWII game. Hell, lets build a navy on the Fiji islands and sink the bismark while Johnny Horton sings in the background. [:D]

[major.pain]

If you were referring to the East Vs West game that got cancelled in favor of getting HOI IV out the door i was told by a friend who follows Paradox rather closely that the East Vs West will be released later on down the line as an expansion for HOI IV.
Maybe you will get the game after all.....

[gexmex]

ORIGINAL: M J R

If you were referring to the East Vs West game that got cancelled in favor of getting HOI IV out the door i was told by a friend who follows Paradox rather closely that the East Vs West will be released later on down the line as an expansion for HOI IV.
Maybe you will get the game after all.....

That's the one! I couldn't remember the name exactly. I would be more interested in having that add on than just straight up WWII. It's still kind of shady how Paradox will basically have cancelled the smaller devs game just to release it as DLC in their own game.

[Jim D Burns]

ORIGINAL: wodin
so I wouldn't say they are going downhill fast.

I was speaking about wargaming, not strategy gaming. Strategy games are about the underlying game mechanics and the storyline of a strategy game has little or nothing to do with the immersion factor. Wargames are about history, without historical accuracy wargamers lose interest, the underlying storyline makes all the difference to a wargamer.

HOI4 will be a strategy game, but you may as well rename the Germans to Side A and the French to Side B given what this preview showed, this isn’t going to be a wargame by a far cry. They may use history to guide some events that occur in game, but letting players design tanks equivalent to 2011 model tanks (or any other piece of hardware in game) according to one comment they made, is ridiculous. Calling it a game about WWII is false advertising if you ask me.

Jim

[wodin]

OK see your point..though there are many games out there that fail when it comes to mechanics are making the game historical..the latest I think is End of War. Not all Wars are the same and trying to fit a War like WW1 into an engine built for ACW wars and earlier is going to hit issues. With HOI it was an engine built for much earlier history and a far greater time scale. I do own HOI 3 and it's expansions and HOI Darkest Hour but confess to them barely being played. I did like the battleplan mechanic which took alot of micromanagement out of counter moving. I just find games with research and production a drag and soemtimes at the start of a game it seems countries are well behind what they would have been historically and it would take far longer to research so then again your behind even more. Just give me the combat in wargames and I'm happy (would deal with supply aswell).

[aaatoysandmore]

ORIGINAL: wodin

OK see your point..though there are many games out there that fail when it comes to mechanics are making the game historical..the latest I think is End of War. Not all Wars are the same and trying to fit a War like WW1 into an engine built for ACW wars and earlier is going to hit issues. With HOI it was an engine built for much earlier history and a far greater time scale. I do own HOI 3 and it's expansions and HOI Darkest Hour but confess to them barely being played. I did like the battleplan mechanic which took alot of micromanagement out of counter moving. I just find games with research and production a drag and soemtimes at the start of a game it seems countries are well behind what they would have been historically and it would take far longer to research so then again your behind even more. Just give me the combat in wargames and I'm happy (would deal with supply aswell).

Games like Steel Panthers? correct?

I'm the same way as I don't care for all the micromanagement either. But, I do like the randomness of the battles as I want something different everytime I play. Still based on WWII authenticity but still a whatif type battle. Sort of like the tv show "COMBAT" different things happened within the squad every episode. Not like a linear progression of events during the war as most grand scale games seem to do it.

I mean how much can one change the D-Day invasion or Battle of the Bulge? They happened the way they did and if a wargame is a good simulation of those battles then it will happen that way in the game. I just never could understand playing a game like that. If nothing can be changed then it's going to pan out the same way every time. It was kind of like playing Stalingrad by AH as a kid. I played the germans and always started out like the germans an always almost captured Moscow and Stalingrad. But, in just about every game (everyone gets lucky from time to time and rolls all 1's and 6's when they need to) the russians would always start getting those massive reinforcements and I'd get pushed out and back to the start line. I'm sure if the Germans had of rolled enough 1's and 6's during their assault they might have taken Moscow and Stalingrad too. [:D]

[bairdlander2]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Who doesn't remember Victoria at .99 cents just a few weeks after release? [:D]

I bought it several months after release and it was not 99 cents.Where do you get your information?[&:][&:][&:]

[gradenko2k]

ORIGINAL: gexmex
I really enjoy CK2 alot, but I lost a lot of respect for Paradox when they canned their Cold War era game, and how they did it. Months and months of Johan and company emphatically the game would be released, and things moving along with very promising DDs. Then all of a sudden it got canceled with essentially no legitimate explanations as to why. Instead of charting new territory with a Cold War grand strategy title, they chose to go kick it to the curb and go with something they've tried 3 times already. It's boring, honestly. Despite the shiny new coat of paint and fancy ways to build divisions, what really changes? Paradox has just come up with a slightly different, prettier, easier way of doing the exact same things they've done before. And they've ditched the chain of command, which disappoints me greatly. That ship variant thing in the video is just a dumbed down version of the ship designer ripped off from the Cold War game. Sticks in my craw.

Having done all this ranting....I'm sure I'll cave at some point in the future and buy it when it goes on sale. I'm a sucker like that. [8|]

East vs West was going to be an incredibly bad trainwreck, based on what the leaked beta copies were like. It made perfect sense for Paradox to cancel it rather than throw away all of the "we don't release buggy crap anymore" goodwill they built up in the wake of CK2 and EU4

[gexmex]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000



East vs West was going to be an incredibly bad trainwreck, based on what the leaked beta copies were like. It made perfect sense for Paradox to cancel it rather than throw away all of the "we don't release buggy crap anymore" goodwill they built up in the wake of CK2 and EU4

I guess it was more the way it was handled than anything. I just felt strung along for nothing. I didn't know about leaked betas, it seemed like everything was moving in the right direction. All I ever got to see were screenshots, so I know nothing.