[RELEASED] Russian Civil War; May, 2004

[magi]

im just starting this....

i moved the CSG-7 150 +- NMs off the NW coast of Norway... aprox 300 NM from Reds left... i can start destroying them from west to east while extending their operations... make them work harder... fight in depth... nobody would cruise 100 miles up and down their line with them having so many assets..... i will stay a couple hundred nms plus off their coast....
the escorts should have the SH60Bs and there should be some oceanhawks on the Ronald Reagan... ill swap some around.....
i changed the prowler loadouts to short range AN/ALQ99J stuff... need more jammers....
i think it would be cool to have some air force stuff at Ivalo... i will probably stick a couple of JSTARs there an some other neat stuff... need more jammers and SEAD stuff.....
this is going to be fun.....

[AlexGGGG]

Primarchx,

Its a good point about sending some TLAMs in first so that SAMs will turn radars on, thanks.

jmarso,

It's my personal preference as well about pre-configured missions. I don't really like having any missions pre-set in the scenario. It seems that my opinion about proper setup is often different from what scenario designer thinks.

[AlexGGGG]

Finally, I did it, with a little bit shift into absurd after first day,

Triumph 958

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
3x F-14D Tomcat
4x F/A-18E Super Hornet
2x F-14B Tomcat

Mostly to aircraft, because something changed in automatic CAP/AAW engagement logic between builds and it took a while for me to get used to it.


-------------------------------
Brief account of ammunition spent:

Missiles
500+ AAMs
300+ TLAMs
330+ HARMs

Bombs, mostly dumb
500x 2000 lb
800x 1000 lb
800x 500 lb

Guns
2000x Vulcan gun bursts from aircraft
6000x 127 mm naval gun shells

[Gunner98]

ORIGINAL: jmarso

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Great scenario so far. About 3 hrs in and a fur ball is ongoing. Used the editor to set a couple Tomcats with TARPs as I wanted to get a better idea of the various layers to the onion [:'(]

I have a feeling I don't understand how the TARPS thing is really supposed to work in game, despite setting up a TARPS mission as part of Phase II. Mini-tutorial on the fly, pls?

With clear skies I simply run the Tomcat along the coast at about 10K ft, about 10-15 miles off the coast and it picks up some of the mobiles and pinpoints some of the others. I am sure if I got closer it would be better but was a bit worried about setting things too hot too soon. Did anyway [:D]. All the sensors are passive so you don't even need to lite him up.

-I think in this situation the AC on the CV should be in Surge mode

I'm obviously missing something here because I thought I did this- is it only fighters that can do a quick-turn? I hate to admit it but Phase I was my second go-round with the mission editor and I'm well aware I'm taking a big bite here with little experience, so the feedback is important.

Sorry - meant quick turn. There are three settings in the doctrine: None, Ftrs and ASW, all. The aircraft type still needs the capability to take advantage of the setting though. I meant quick turn for Ftrs and ASW.




Can't see how it could possibly be as good as 'The Road Warrior', but I'm an 80's child. Enjoy!

[:D]It was quite good - not much for dialogue but lots of action[:D]

[Gunner98]

ORIGINAL: jmarso

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

-It would be useful to have the formation of the CSG sorted out. Ships are a bit out of place and all pointing North. Recommend you set up the formation you want. Save the formation in Export. Open up a blank scenario, import the CSG. Run the game for a few min to get them all pointed in the correct direction. Save the CSG in export again. Open up your original game. Delete the CSG. Import the saved CSG and it pointing the right way with a decent formation.

Another trick of the trade I'm learning as I go- I grasp what you're explaining here and I'll try to get it squared away in the next revision. When you add a unit it always starts oriented north, right? So is the trick to place the lead unit, turn on the scenario to get it driving the right way, then place the other units around it and station them either 'relative' or 'fixed'? Or is there another way to do it?

-

Best to follow these steps:

1: Add all the ships that will be in the formation. Group the formation
2: Set up a decent formation for the situation (F4) - some discussion on that here: tm.asp?m=3661302 and here: tm.asp?m=3636652
3: Set name, course & Speed
4: Export your CSG
5: Start a new blank scenario, set a side
6: Import your CSG
7: Check the course & speed is what you want
8: Run the game until things look good
9: Export your CSG again, over-writing the first one
10: Go back to your original scenario
11: Delete the CSG that is pointing North
12: Import the properly pointing CSG and your good to go.

Much simpler way to do this is to start your scenario and set up all your ships and airborne aircraft BEFORE you set up your bases with loadouts and time to be ready etc. Run the game until everything is good. Reset the clock.

Hope this helps

B

[jmarso]

Based on feedback here plus a couple things I've figured out in the interim, I'm starting a list of things to tweak or change in the Phase I scenario. Some of the changes will necessarily spill over into Phases II and III. It'll take a while to get it all done, but stand by for Revision 1!

[AlexGGGG]

I remember in Jame's F/A-18, there was a Viking-escort mission, somewhere early in the scenario? Or was it from some add-on? Because here we don't seem to have a sub and/or ASW aspects. At least I did not encounter that so far, and I don't see any Vikings in Phase I and II. Would it be moar fun to have ASW also in the mix?

[AlexGGGG]

In Phase II, Northern Fleet HQ reference points (around RP 6925) are not locked as they supposed to be.

Also I did not have the building designated as promised ('Building (Large) *Red Special Cell Hideout*). I checked enemy losses and there are no objects "Building" in there yet. I killed all the buildings of this type in the group and that was enough.

[jmarso]

ORIGINAL: AlexGGGG

I remember in Jame's F/A-18, there was a Viking-escort mission, somewhere early in the scenario? Or was it from some add-on? Because here we don't seem to have a sub and/or ASW aspects. At least I did not encounter that so far, and I don't see any Vikings in Phase I and II. Would it be moar fun to have ASW also in the mix?

The escort mission I remember was escorting a TARPS bird- I don't remember anything with S-3's at all. This particular set of scenarios flat out doesn't involve ASW, and that is addressed pretty clearly in the briefing. There are plenty of other ASW scenarios out there.

[Gunner98]

Enjoyed this one.

12 hours in and a Triumph. So I think that you could probably shorten it up a bit and raise the Victory levels.

Looking forward to next version. On to Phase 2.

SIDE: USN
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x F-14B Tomcat
2x F/A-18E Super Hornet

SIDE: Red Russian
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
6x Tu-95MR Bear E
32x MiG-31B Foxhound
23x Su-27S Flanker B
86x SA-2f Guideline Mod 1/2 Single Rail
83x SA-7a Grail [9K32 Strela-2] MANPADS
48x SA-3b Goa Quad Rail
16x Radar (Thin Skin A HF [PRV-9])
1x Radar (P-70)
13x Vehicle (Flat Face B [P-19])
10x Vehicle (Low Blow [SNR-125])
14x Vehicle (Spoon Rest C [P-12])
16x Radar (Spoon Rest C [P-12])
13x Vehicle (Fan Song F [RSNA-75M])
5x Su-30 Flanker G
36x SA-10a Grumble [5P85T] TEL
6x Vehicle (Clam Shell [5N66])
3x Radar (Thin Skin B HF [PRV-16])
24x MiG-29 Fulcrum C
1x Radar (Tin Shield A [5N59])
25x SA-5c Gammon Single Rail
14x 23mm ZU-23-2
3x Radar (Back Net [P-80])
1x Radar (Tall King A [P-14])
4x Radar (Bar Lock A [P-37])
2x Radar (Flat Face B [P-19])
8x MiG-29 Fulcrum A
5x Building (Square Pair [5N62])
3x Building (Tall King C [P-14])
3x Building (Odd Pair HF [PRV-13])
3x A-50 Mainstay A
3x RK Osa II [Pr.205U]
6x Vehicle (Flap Lid A [5N63])
2x Diesel Bunker (750k Liter Tank)
2x Diesel (400k Liter Tank)



SIDE: Finland
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------



SIDE: Trigger Happy RR
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
2x MiG-31B Foxhound

[jmarso]

Gunner, it looks like you took out a lot of installations and left some SAMS. I need to clarify the briefing objectives a bit, and narrow down the scoring. The goal is supposed to be to wipe out SAMS, radars, and air, not necessarily all the infrastructure. I need to communicate that better in the briefings. Another data point for Rev 1.

[Gunner98]

Had another 20 Hornets loading up to clean up the remainder of the SAMS. Was using some of the installations as a bomb dump for alternate targets. Mostly used Short range Mk.82 loads once the TLAMs took the edge off the SAM sites, so each AC (12 in the first run I think) had 8 bombs, with a bit of micro you can get fairly efficient. Brief was clear enough, but wasn't going to go deep with that bomb-load, needed longer range and not worth the risk for just a few left over bombs. And as the old saying goes: If you’re not a Gunner - you’re a target [:D]


B

[AlexGGGG]

ORIGINAL: jmarso
The escort mission I remember was escorting a TARPS bird- I don't remember anything with S-3's at all.

I must have been playing some add-on then.

This particular set of scenarios flat out doesn't involve ASW, and that is addressed pretty clearly in the briefing. There are plenty of other ASW scenarios out there.

After playing some while, I developed a habit that "pretty clearly" just is not good enough. At this time our intelligence estimate is that no SSN / SSGN assets have been subverted or captured by the rebel leadership. I have read words to similar effect many times, only to eventually discover that damn intel was no good. So I will deploy ASW patrols every time unless the text is worded as "designer's note" rather than "intel". This does not mean I'm in any way dissatisfied with the briefing - on the contrary, I very much like it as it is now; little bit uncertainty is great.

Changing topic, I second the suggestion that Phase I should be shortened to maybe 36 or 48 hours.

[jmarso]

ORIGINAL: AlexGGGG

This particular set of scenarios flat out doesn't involve ASW, and that is addressed pretty clearly in the briefing. There are plenty of other ASW scenarios out there.

After playing some while, I developed a habit that "pretty clearly" just is not good enough. At this time our intelligence estimate is that no SSN / SSGN assets have been subverted or captured by the rebel leadership. I have read words to similar effect many times, only to eventually discover that damn intel was no good. So I will deploy ASW patrols every time unless the text is worded as "designer's note" rather than "intel". This does not mean I'm in any way dissatisfied with the briefing - on the contrary, I very much like it as it is now; little bit uncertainty is great.

Better safe than sorry is always a sound policy regarding submarines.

[jmarso]

Here comes the first revision...

Command: Russian Civil War Phase I/II/III Change Log

• Fixed the formation and reduced the size of the Strike Group. Changed the USS Normandy to the USS Lake Erie
• Removed one squadron of Tomcats from the air wing
• Fixed the carrier magazines- hopefully there's enough ordnance. Let me know. UNREP function still questionable
• Put some CVW assets in maintenance or reserve status
• Made adjustments to Russian A/C OOB (Replaced a lot of Foxhounds with Fulcrums/Flankers)
• Cleared the message logs at scenario start
• Made the US forces ‘veteran’ proficiency
• In Phase I, the first wave of Bears will retreat if intercepted.
• Shuffled the strike group helos to put the Bravos on the small boys and the Foxtrots on the carrier
• Added more jamming pods to the carrier magazine for the Prowlers
• Fixed the formation for the ESG in Phase III
• Fixed the formation for the Red Russian SAG in Phase II
• Clarified mission briefings for Norway/Finland overflight rules and Phase I mission objectives
• Adjusted Phase I scoring so you get points for hitting mission objectives targets but not ALL the Kola infrastructure

EDIT: One other thing: I changed the start position of the strike group in Phase I, moving it well back to the west and farther north, giving it a much longer run-in to the oparea and a chance to chase off those pesky Bears a little early.

[Gunner98]

Looks good. With the Norwegian airspace issue and positioning of the CSG, TLAM strikes are going to take some careful planning - I like it. Will play Ph1 agian shortly.

B

[Gunner98]

• In Phase I, the first wave of Bears will retreat if intercepted.

Not sure if this is working. In the clip, distance is ~400M and its my second pass

[Gunner98]

Another event issue I think.

-In the message log I saw the event message:

7:08:05 AM - Event: 'Trigger Happy Russians Start War' was triggered but did NOT fire (failed probability check).


-Saw some interceptors heading my way - then they launched missiles at my BARCAP
-Popped into God's Eye and sure enough these were the Trigger Happy miscrants.

So am not sure if the the event trigger is working properly as the it was a fail but they still attacked.

[Gunner98]

All going well.

Couple of points:

-With the standoff of the CSG and the trigger happy guys shooting early, the air battle is more of a 'standoff and attrite, vice a 'surge & sweep'. This is fine, but if you would like to keep the defenders fighting longer you may want to use Prosecution zones for you CAP. This would a) prevent the Defenders from zooming out on burner and turning back empty just at the time when ambushing Hornets feed them some AMRAAMs. And b) force the USN to dance around the SAMs while sweeping the air clear, meaning a comprehensive SEAD effort which is more of a challenge to conduct.

-I filled the AOE with a good bunch of munitions (attached)and tried the UNREP thing. Still a bit of a learning curve for me as well. It failed but I think I know why: My conclusions/speculation:

--Because the CVN is 'Lead' in the formation, when you tell it to UNREP nothing seems to happen
--When I told the AOE to UNREP, it immediately headed to the carrier (I have seen this before in NF-9, not sure if its designed this way but it does work)
--Because the AOE's top speed is 25, and the CSG was maintaining that speed, it was already starting to drop back a bit. I slowed the CSG down to 15knts and the AOE closed on the Carrier at 22knts. I thought this should happen automatically but it didn't even though the formation box was ticked saying that it was slowing down to regroup.
--Both the AOE and the CVN had an UNREP dialog stating they were closing on each other
--The AOE closed with the CVN but when that happened the UNREP dialog ended and they both became 'unassigned'

I THINK this happened because the CVN magazine is already chalked to overcapacity. Not certain. There had been some munitions expended so I thought that it might work for those but no-go.

I believe the UNREP is working sort off as designed, the speed thing is an issue and so is who needs to receive the UNREP order. But I think that it fails in scenario because of the overstocked magazine - this is just speculation. I'll pop a comment into the Tech support forum.

B

[Gunner98]

Here is the AOE file. You can save it in your import/export folder (I'd make a seperat sub folder) and then import it. You may wish to experiment with a stock CVN in a blank scenario to get things working.

B