An ideal strategic WW2 game

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Even the Total War games are getting long winded with just 40 units max. Games can take days or months to play out. It's getting too busy with so many things to do on the turn side of things and then what used to be fun rts combat is no longer as much fun since they sped them up to adjust for the long turn based turns.
A WWII game like that just wouldn't be realistic. What used to be 30min to an hour long is now 5 to 10 minutes at the most if you're any kind of tactical strategist at all. The longest battles I have are when the ai attack. It ain't too smart.

Making History I and II or that Supreme Ruler 1936 would be the best models for what you think you want. I wouldn't want to play that game you are thinking of with a 10ft pole as just a turn would be massively long.

I don't know why you would say that. Have you played Command Ops? That's the command model I'm thinking about and in it you can just give a few orders and your AI subordinates do the rest. That wouldn't take long at all. Also, you would only need to adjust orders as the situation warranted. If the plan is going well, you wouldn't have to change anything. I favour that command system for those reasons. It saves time.

Having said that, I'm not suggesting a beer and pretzels game. This is the Second World War here...it deserves a decent amount of time and devotion. I mean, if 80-odd million virtual people are going to die, it should be done properly [:'(]

Cheers, Neilster

[aaatoysandmore]

Command Ops though is on a single skirmish. Even the tutorial takes up to an hour for me to play at medium speed. That's just one battle, you are talking about thousands in a complete WW2 setting.

Even Norbsoft's Civil war series are kinda like you're talking about. You can give orders and let the ai play out the "battle" but not the whole civil war.

What you're asking for is just too monsterous. Not saying it couldn't be done but I don't even think Gary would tackle a game like that.

Even Paradox's Hoi couldn't handle the tactical level. And it just does a fair job at grand scale.

It's probably a nice "wish" for the future but I think we're talking a distant future. They haven't even mastered the AI's yet and computer gaming is nearly 40 years old.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Command Ops though is on a single skirmish. Even the tutorial takes up to an hour for me to play at medium speed. That's just one battle, you are talking about thousands in a complete WW2 setting.

Even Norbsoft's Civil war series are kinda like you're talking about. You can give orders and let the ai play out the "battle" but not the whole civil war.

What you're asking for is just too monsterous. Not saying it couldn't be done but I don't even think Gary would tackle a game like that.

Even Paradox's Hoi couldn't handle the tactical level. And it just does a fair job at grand scale.

It's probably a nice "wish" for the future but I think we're talking a distant future. They haven't even mastered the AI's yet and computer gaming is nearly 40 years old.

Command Ops is tactical/grand tactical. I'm proposing something that's strategic/operational. I'm not sure you're actually reading what I post. At no point have I suggested that the game would be tactical. That would be ridiculous.

It's the orders style of Command Ops that I'm interested in; not all of WW2 being fought out at company scale. Just as in Command Ops you give orders to a battalion commander and the AI handles the subordinates, I'm proposing that you would give orders to, say, a panzer group commander and the AI handles the divisions. Forget tactical...this is a strategic game.

Cheers, Neilster

[aaatoysandmore]

Lol well your idea is a bit confusing to say the least. It does sound a lot like HOI now only with more of a command and control feature. Don't think you're gonna see that anytime soon though. They can't even get the main part right as most all HOI's have been a disaster.

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Lol well your idea is a bit confusing to say the least. It does sound a lot like HOI now only with more of a command and control feature. Don't think you're gonna see that anytime soon though. They can't even get the main part right as most all HOI's have been a disaster.

Oh we're back to Hearts of Iron are we? Even though that doesn't have a 3D global map, has little cartoon aeroplanes zooming around and I said that's not what I'm envisioning.

Perhaps you'd find my idea less confusing if you actually read what I wrote. After I wrote "The engine itself probably wouldn't model things below divisional level" you started talking about distant-future AI being required to handle thousands of tactical battles.

Cheers, Neilster

[Agathosdaimon]

so are you thinking something more like Command Ops but occurring up to the operational level - so i guess a dynamic operation campaign covering a large area but which is played at the command ops level so there would be some extra things one would need to consider with supply and reinforcements etc - so for example an playing the whole operation case blue or zitadelle or wacht am rhein or market garden entirely?
well even if you are not meaning this, this is something i would like to see

apart from the war in the east games, and the Ron Dockall games are there any others that can cover Operation Zitadelle is one big campaign?

[Neilster]

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

so are you thinking something more like Command Ops but occurring up to the operational level - so i guess a dynamic operation campaign covering a large area but which is played at the command ops level so there would be some extra things one would need to consider with supply and reinforcements etc - so for example an playing the whole operation case blue or zitadelle or wacht am rhein or market garden entirely?
well even if you are not meaning this, this is something i would like to see

apart from the war in the east games, and the Ron Dockall games are there any others that can cover Operation Zitadelle is one big campaign?

An operational level game with a Command Ops style orders system would be excellent but I'm envisioning a global strategic level one. Obviously you'd necessarily lose tactical detail at such a scale. That's why I think the smallest manoeuvre unit would be corps or divisional level and the player would mostly be giving orders at the army level. I changed the title of the thread to be "An ideal strategic WW2 game"

Cheers, Neilster