Russian Airbase in Syria

[Jagdtiger14]

http://theweek.com/articles/578867/what ... -war-games

Its actually within this article on the Chinese war gaming armor tactics.

It seems every rebel group has been killing tanks. Take a look at youtube: "Syrian tank battles" and you will see dozens of different media and rebel groups represented...seems they all have gopros.

[JosephM]

Yep, saw this from a link on the Flashpoint forum.

I think in general everyone seems to find attacking Syrian tanks quite easy to eliminate, as they are neglecting infantry support in urban areas - one of my first games of BA2 against Iain taught me the error of trying to charge tanks through a city with no infantry. I lost worse than people normally lose to Iain.

[KISSMEUFOOL!]

I hope Syria also gets the M1-

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/m1- ... raq-05013/

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Russia's purpose has never been to fight insurgents. It's shielding Assad's murderous regime and showing the West that Russia is not to be trifled with. Putin may be a megalomaniac, but he's a stone cold calculating one.

If nothing else Putin's strategy is coherent - which is more than you can say about anybody else (ISIS excepted). The West is now pathetically flailing about supporting a 'side' that, because they were given insufficient support when it mattered, now either no longer effectively exists or is just another 'terrorist' faction depending on who you talk to.

The only conceivable victors in Syria now are Assad or ISIS with the former being the lesser of two evils. The only sensible Western policy that might recover some ground and dignity from the mess is to expel ISIS from Iraq and successfully stabilize that country by any means necessary. As to Syria let Putin and Assad get on with it. Assad's regime may have been 'murderous' but it was nowhere near as murderous for civilians as being caught between the Syrian Army and ISIS nutters on a seemingly endless basis.

[Zap]

ORIGINAL: Hertston

ORIGINAL:

As to Syria let Putin and Assad get on with it.but it was nowhere near as murderous for civilians as being caught between the Syrian Army and ISIS nutters on a seemingly endless basis.

I have to agree with the above. Since it appears the West is giving only lip service to the Evilness of ISIS but the actions taken (even if it meant ally with Assad) are half hearted.

[AbwehrX]

I hope Syria also gets the M1-

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/m1- ... raq-05013/

That would only be just. ISIS is the devils brew.

I have to agree with the above. Since it appears the West is giving only lip service to the Evilness of ISIS but the actions taken (even if it meant ally with Assad) are half hearted.

Rumor has it that ISIS works for the West on a suicide mission anyway. If weapons actually are being deployed in orbit then that means Russia & China probably have them there too. That could get way out of control.

[Fred98]

I think the days of tanks are numbered.

In the olden days there was a weapon called the Anti Tank Gun. It took some time to deploy and had to be camouflaged.

Today anti tank weapons are fired from the shoulder. It is very easy to hide the soldier and his weapon.

And it is not so hard to destroy tanks from aircraft and helicopters.

Aircraft and helicopters have trouble hitting dispersed infantry.

So I think, just as it was 100 years ago, artillery is once again queen of the modern battlefield.

.

[operating]

Would not be totally surprised that Assad cedes part of Syria to the Russians before he abdicates or is forced from power. Kinda like Gitmo from Cuba to the USA.

[Jagdtiger14]

I'm not sure, but I think Gitmo has a 99 year lease...starting from 1934...so it ends in 2033?

The problem Assad has to cede territory is his alawite (sp?) clan...which basically stretches along the coast line. He might get away with a very long term lease though.

As far as the days of tanks being numbered...keep in mind the tanks being destroyed in Syria are Russian tanks...mostly of the older variety. Modern western tanks are quite different: The US Abrams has depleted uranium armor, some special armor the Brits developed, and electronic counter measures (Softkill) that defeats incoming anti-tank missiles. Nothing is ever fool proof...but with technology and tactics...

[z1812]

This may interest those reading this thread.

http://www.realcleardefense.com/article ... 08514.html

The last section deals with Russia in Syria. However the complete article is interesting.

[Capt. Harlock]

An update:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/ ... index.html

I'm a bit puzzled as to why the Russians want to conceal this move. Perhaps because the Russian positions are already taking fire from insurgents in Syria, and they don't want people to know how target-rich the base is becoming.

[operating]

There has to be more up Russia's sleeve than defending Assad? Yes, they desperately want to hang onto this toehold in the Mediterranean at any cost, even if the Syrian government becomes hostile towards them, that is what the Russians are preparing for, however, in the meantime they will put up the front of defending Assad, again which works towards their favor. Just one bullet to Assad's head could change everything for the Russians overnight. If that were to happen, Russia knows that it would be quite some time before there is a bon-a-fide government again, so they had best get their act together to resist a change to status quo, allebet (sp?) build an army there...

[Jagdtiger14]

As much as I dislike and distrust Putin the dictator that he is, and I am opposed to him propping up Assad, and especially his actions in Ukraine...unlike the West, at least he's doing something real vs ISIS and al Nusra. There will be lots of blood spilt, and as usual...the Russian disregard for life including their own will come into play.

I really hate the bungling and un-seriousness that the west (esp. the US) is going about things over there...the Iraqi's cant retake Ramala even though they far outnumber ISIS and have better equipment and US advisors, the US trains 50+ Syrians, spends 100 million on it...all to have them hand over their equipment to terrorists and then disappear, a drone strike here and there, and...we've alienated the one very pro-west people over there (the Iraqi Kurds). Jordan getting pissed about their pilot being beheaded...one day of furious attacks on ISIS and then nothing (ISIS has control of Syrian villages near the Jordanian border, but the King is chicken to go after them even though he puffed his chest about that very same thing). One of the Arab allies withdraw (UAE?) because they do not think the US led coalition is serious.

I hate to say this but Putin is 1000 times the leader if you add up every leader in the West. Its really pitiful. Russia might very well exit Syria like they did Afghanistan (I hope they do, but on the other hand they might wipe ISIS out). In my 42 years of paying attention to foreign affairs, I've never seen the world this chaotic, and the West this impotent and disengaged. There is no leader of the free world. Its not just Syria/Mid east and Ukraine...its also Venezuela, South China Sea, etc...

[KISSMEUFOOL!]

Youre all way off. The so-called "war on terror" is a titanic fraud. Putin is defending Syria from genocide committed by the Western Intelligence proxies feigning rebellion. Americans should be supporting Putin by equipping Assad.

[Jagdtiger14]

That's conspiratorial. I agree the "war on terror" has become a titanic fraud, and I wont say since when or this thread might get locked. Are Western Intelligence agencies behind ISIS and al Nusra? There will be no peace in that area so long as Assad, Iran, and Hezbollah are there...and that includes in Lebanon.

[KISSMEUFOOL!]

That's conspiratorial. I agree the "war on terror" has become a titanic fraud, and I wont say since when or this thread might get locked.

True. There actually is collusion between MI6, CIA, Mossad (along with the Saudi's & Pakistani ISI)to destabilize Iran, Iraq, Syria & Yemen. http://tvnewslies.org/html/pnac.html

Are Western Intelligence agencies behind ISIS and al Nusra?

Unfortunately yes. Unfortunately Americans are too politically braindead to stop it hence the censorship of political topics here & seemingly everywhere across the net.

There will be no peace in that area so long as Assad, Iran, and Hezbollah are there...and that includes in Lebanon.

The malignant Western media would have us believe that but the West provoked them into reacting decades ago. America for example had no conflict with Iran until it staged the Pahlavi coup.

An update:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/ ... index.html

I'm a bit puzzled as to why the Russians want to conceal this move. Perhaps because the Russian positions are already taking fire from insurgents in Syria, and they don't want people to know how target-rich the base is becoming.

Putin: Does anyone even listen to us?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF-6TsqPoQs

[JosephM]

KISSMEYOUFOOL, that is a very good video. I can't find the link, but there was a BBC News article a few days ago about the base in Syria, where it was saying that it was Russia just ensuring that they still get the access to the eastern Mediteranean and that they are trying to stop ISIS as ISIS is a direct threat to them (remember there are more ISIS recruits from Russia than from most Western nations except the UK and France, and also lots from the -stan nations).
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/06/02/h ... /21189692/

The BBC had a similar article on Crimea - a holiday hotspot for Russians for centuries, and although the Western world likes to view it as a bad thing there were points in that article that stated that Russia views Crimea as somewhere where there was conflict and they stepped in to stop it and that it is very pro-Russian and always has been. I hold (more) Western views on the Crimea and Ukraine situation that I'll not mention on here, as it is political and let's try to keep this factual rather than opinionated/political, but from Putin's point of view a shrinking buffer and hostile force on the borders means that he has to step in.

[JosephM]

ORIGINAL: KISSMEUFOOL!

That's conspiratorial. I agree the "war on terror" has become a titanic fraud, and I wont say since when or this thread might get locked.

True. There actually is collusion between MI6, CIA, Mossad (along with the Saudi's & Pakistani ISI)to destabilize Iran, Iraq, Syria & Yemen. http://tvnewslies.org/html/pnac.html

Are Western Intelligence agencies behind ISIS and al Nusra?

Unfortunately yes. Unfortunately Americans are too politically braindead to stop it hence the censorship of political topics here & seemingly everywhere across the net.

There will be no peace in that area so long as Assad, Iran, and Hezbollah are there...and that includes in Lebanon.

The malignant Western media would have us believe that but the West provoked them into reacting decades ago. America for example had no conflict with Iran until it staged the Pahlavi coup.

An update:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/ ... index.html

I'm a bit puzzled as to why the Russians want to conceal this move. Perhaps because the Russian positions are already taking fire from insurgents in Syria, and they don't want people to know how target-rich the base is becoming.

Putin: Does anyone even listen to us?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF-6TsqPoQs

And I'd not say directly Western intelligence caused ISIS. Certainly, in the early days of the Syria Civil War, there were a lot of funds going from the Gulf states into islamist groups, and then ISIS declared its caliphate, and although ISIS is now self-sufficient the early formation has certainly been linked to the gulf funding. These days ISIS is self-funded, and does a remarkably good job of it too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29004253

[Jagdtiger14]

Since Ukraine broke away and has had free and fair elections (post Kuchma sp? perhaps)...there has been a pro-Ukraine candidate and a pro-Russia candidate. Take a look at historical Ukrainian election maps and you will see the results show Ukraine east of the Dnieper River and Crimea have always identified more closely to Moscow. Perhaps the solution here could be to allow eastern Ukraine independence or annexation to Russia, but allow western Ukraine into the EU and NATO, and allow military systems to be placed there.

[PipFromSlitherine]

Guys, any more of the conspiracy theory ramblings and I will lock this.

Cheers

Pip