New Scenario for testing NF10.2 Ant Eaters Revenge

[AndrewJ]

I started playing the original, and I'm noticing that the fighters coming up to meet me W of Iceland are at minimum altitude, even the Mig-31s. Not sure if that's intentional?

[Gunner98]

Not intentional. Did not see this in earlier tests? Will take a look.

Thanks

B

[AndrewJ]

Well, the sparring between the F-15s and their west CAP is underway, and the two AGIs are underwater, but I don't think I'm making meaningful progress yet.

The Cub jammers seem to be set to Inherited Passive, so I've turned their OECM on.

[Maromak]

How did you take down the AGIs? Did you use the P-3s or an F-117? I had planned to use the P-3s via a base in Greenland.

[AndrewJ]

It was the P-3s. After dealing with the AGIs one went up around the north coast, while the other went along the south coast to look for other ships. The one down south hasn't found anything else, but now it's running away from the residue of a dogfight, anxiously hoping the remaining Russians won't pursue too far. It's still got a couple of missiles, but probably won't be able to use them, except maybe as a BOL decoy. The one up north found a Russian merchant and put its last two missiles into it, setting it on fire but not sinking it. Hopefully it will burn out. The P-3s are being sent to the Greenland base after their mission is done.

One of my F-15s cleverly identified the Sovremenny by collecting one of its missiles, before I grew a brain and used the TR-1's radar to find the ships in the bay. I doubt I'll be able to sink the DD/CG group with missiles, because I can't generate enough Harpoons at once, but I may be able to get rid of the PCF or the FF with them, and I should be able to finish off the freighter.

So far I've managed to destroy the radars on the northern arm, including the SA-20's set, by sneaking down through the fjords from the north, and keeping the ridge between me and trouble. Then once the ridge was "clear" (I suspect there's actually more short range stuff still there) I was able to get the Reykyavik SA-20 as well by popping up over the ridgeline, firing my HARMs, and then scurrying back down into cover. The radar on the volcano hasn't started transmitting yet, and the Keflavik SA-20 is still keeping its silence also.

The air war has gone well so far, with two main waves of defenders destroyed, but I've essentially run out of AMRAAMs and Sparrows, so I have no real offensive capability until the final bunch of F-15s and F-16s show up just before the F-111 strike. This means I'm in run-away mode for now. I got two of the Mainstays by sending F-15s over the center of Iceland while the defenders were busy elsewhere, which should help. I've left the F-117s on the 'ground' for the moment, to simulate a later strike, along with some F-15s to escort them. Based on the briefing the environment was just too dangerous to send them in at first. If I can get the Keflavik SA-20 I may send the F-117s in before the F-111s arrive. The TR-1 has found so many 'MOBILE' units on the Kef airfield that the F-111s would be absolutely slaughtered at low level, but the F-117s may be able to clear some of those defences for them. Unfortunately, that would mean I can't use the F-117s on the various building targets, where I think they would really shine.

It's an interesting scenario, that's for sure.

[Gunner98]

Andrew

Which version are you playing? Sounds like it might be the original 1.6, so doing quite well if that's the case.

There are a lot of mobiles around Kef, and a good few around Ryk as well, that was meant to put you in the dilemma you’re currently facing. Be very interested in your recommendations on timing for the F-117s (and others).

If needed, I could add either the 309th FS (F-15 Blk 25) or the 336th (F-15E) which need to get to Europe (Norway). Was sorely tempted to put the 15E's in there as a comparison to the F-111 similar to the Blk 50 vs Wild Weasel comparison, but thought it might be too much.

When you fit this one into the storyline, there are 2 CVBG's coming north again in daylight who can take care of what you haven't cleared up, and if they don't get it the herd of BUFFs will on the following night will.

Thanks for the update


B

[AndrewJ]

Yes, I'm playing the original. I had started before the revised version came out, and elected to continue just to see how it went.

[Maromak]

Andrew

Sure sounds like we're on the same page strategy-wise. I also basically ran out of F-15s equipped with AMRAAMs. I originally thought the solution would have been to take out the runway access points or ammo dumps with the F-117s but there's simply too much enemy air and SAMs to employ this strategy.

[AndrewJ]

Is anyone else seeing the Aircraft Arrival event firing multiple times, instead of once per aircraft? I've got 40 or so points for this so far, with only 5 aircraft in the trigger zone so far.

Edit: it's racking up one point per second. My Triumph is assured! [:D]

[Gunner98]

OK something wrong there - not that you wouldn't score a Triumph anyway [:D]

[AndrewJ]

I just noticed somebody Soviet sneaking down the Greenland coast (Naughty AGI! [:-] Almost got away with it too...), and it suddenly struck me to wonder whether the February sea ice should have any effect on where ships are going, either along the Greenland coast in this scenario, or any other scenarios involving traffic around icy areas like the Newfoundland ports, etc.? It's something I hadn't considered before.

[Gunner98]

It should probably be a factor but not a show stopper. I did put an Ice Breaker in one or two of the scenarios, all ports would/should/could be open with local Ice breakers. Most of the ports would have bubble makers to keep the docks clear and local ferry routes open.

Ice bergs on the other hand if you cruising at 20+knts on radar silence during long winter nights might be an issue, but its not really modeled. It has to be one of those low priority issues, haven't raised it with the Devs because it’s a narrowly focused thing as opposed to some of the stuff they have been working on. Another minor frustration is the inability of subs to poke through sea-ice, but there are work arounds.

Some of the AGIs had reinforced double hulls just for this purpose. [8D]

[AndrewJ]

I wonder if the helmsmen and bridge crew are issued with night vision equipment in order to spot night-time hazards like icebergs? Probably by '94? Other optical sensors like low-light televisions for various weapon systems might also get pressed into service in this role I guess. Radar silence, high speed, and fog, on the other hand...

[Galahad78]

ORIGINAL: Gunner98
Have also included an updated Northern Fury Background document. If your worried about 'scenario creep' I have it in steroids and now have 'campaign creep'! This is number 18 of what was originally going to be 20-14 scenarios, it now looks like there will be 40 or so by the end!! Eeey-gad!

F*ck yeah!! Gunner is the new Santa [:D][:D]

[wild_Willie2]

Ok, just had a go at 1.7 and this is a though one Gunner, maybe your toughest one so far, my compliments once again for your work.

I had trouble getting my F117's to the target under 1.6 without getting them shot to hell by the CAP and still haven't figured out how to best use the B52's under 1.7 to help with the strike.
Once again, the soviet jamming makes my Sparrows almost useless but now my own jamming has virtually no effect on the soviet Alamo's, and I haven't seen that before (anybody have a tip?).
I am also using the F15 equipped AMRAAM's to clear out the CAP, but the Su-27's usually shoot first in the usual head to head engagements and I am loosing fighters before they can can get into range to shoot.
I also managed to take out the west arm SAM's but am also struggling with the Keflavik sites as jamming has apparently been neutered in the latest patch and I am also running out of air to air missiles and am loosing fighters to the Su27's.

I haven't cracked this one yet....[&:][&:][&:][&:]

[Gunner98]

Well It's not meant to be a pushover but neither is it meant to be a nut-breaker. I think I'll add the Eagle Squadron on Standoff strike. 20 A/C probably split between Goose & Gander will give 40 more AMRAAMs and 40 Paveway IIIs.

Might give the edge. Thoughts?



B

[Gunner98]

ORIGINAL: AndrewJ

I wonder if the helmsmen and bridge crew are issued with night vision equipment in order to spot night-time hazards like icebergs? Probably by '94? Other optical sensors like low-light televisions for various weapon systems might also get pressed into service in this role I guess. Radar silence, high speed, and fog, on the other hand...

I'm sure they are, NVGs, Low-Lt TVs, 80 power binos the works. I am not sure if passive sonar would help, perhaps. But I think speed = death when dodging iceburgs in the fog.

[Gunner98]

Have added 336 FS, F-15E all at Goose and a mix of bombs (40% GBU24, 40% GBU12, 20% Rockeye, all AMRAAM) set for about the same time as the F-117s

Fixed a couple text issues
Replaced the Sov Stingers with SA-18
Set the Cubs to Jam
Set some Alt's for some of the Sov CAPs. Didn't actually see anything wrong here but manually set it anyway
Deactivated the arrival event until I can figure out what is going wrong

Appreciate the testing on this one guys, it’s a tough one and takes some effort for sure

B

[AndrewJ]

I've kept playing the initial version to see how it was going.

Skirmishing continued while I waited for the next group of strikers (the next SEAD package) to arrive. With only a few Sidewinder toting F-15s left I was able to draw off a few Su-27s (relying on tankers to outlast the enemy), and even got a few by burnering up behind them as they returned to base, but for the most part I was driven back. My P-3s spent so much fuel running away at military power that they couldn't get back to the fight, and they had to take their Harpoons home. Tankers and AWACs fled for their lives. Even the TR-1, which could ignore the Mig-29s, had to run away.

When the SEAD package arrive I brought it across Iceland from the NW to the center (well escorted with jammers), and sent the main body of it south to try and hook around at Keflavik from the SE. My hope was that by coming in over the water I could hide behind the ridgeline from the Keflavik SAM forest until I was extremely close, and thus deny the SAMs time to react. Unfortunately the southern SA-20 was well sited to deal with that, and it engaged me at ~ 30 nm. I shot back with everything, and of the massed salvo of HARMs only two managed to get through. That was enough to destroy the Tombstone, joy joy! And then the next Tombstone lit up in Keflavik. And then another one after that! [X(]

I did like the self-escorting SEAD package, in the form of the F-16s, and their AMRAAMs were very useful for picking off isolated fighters that straggled in to try and attack. I had also sent a few SEAD planes to tackle the central surveillance radar and the SE surveillance radar near Hornafjordur. I got that one by lobbing HARMs up over the glacier in BOL mode, and then scurrying down the valley to escape to the NE, but the moment it went down the central Big Bird radar lit up, and I really didn't need that. The Maverick F-16s had been very useful for knocking off the isolated short range air defences up there (as well shooting down planes as they lifted off from Reykjavik), and they quickly got rid of the Big Bird. And then everything lit up, including yet another Tombstone, which I needed even less! [:(]

My F-117s (which I had delayed from the original schedule) were inbound at this point, and they skirted the Keflavik SAMs to the N, and then curved around to approach Reykjavik from the NE, so they could come in from as far away from Keflavik as possible, using a very tight jammer escort. One got too far away from its jammer and was nailed by an SA-10 from Keflavik, but the others managed to deliver their bombs, sinking both freighters, destroying all three runways, and blowing up the control tower. Then they ran for it, pursued by angry Su-27s from Keflavik, at exactly the time my AMRAAM toting F-16 reserve decided to fly away and refuel! Two remaining F-15s did their best, but they couldn't save them all. (I actually had more F-15s, and I had specifically planned to use them as escorts for the F-117s, but then I second guessed myself and postponed them to escort the F-111s. [:o] Lesson learned! Always cover your extraction!)

At that point I made the decision to call off the F-111 strike, and I flew them directly to England. Reykjavik was shut, but still had potent close range defences, and there wasn't much more to be gained from hitting it again. The Keflavik SAM forest was simply impossible. Hornafjordur had at least one SA-20 and one SA-10, which would probably have meant heavy losses. Akureyri was a possibility, since I hadn't spotted much up there, but there may have been hidden things, and I didn't think there was much to be gained from hitting a small field. (Looking at it afterwards, I should have made a better recce with the TR-1, and then I would have known I was able to tackle it. Another lesson learned! Recce!)

In the end I had shot down most of the flyable Russian aircraft (not counting the Su-24s and tankers), wrecked the runways at Reykjavik, sunk three merchants, sunk three AGIs, destroyed three Tombstones, and a number of other radars and SHORADS. I tried a few more things afterwards, rerunning the SEAD attack to see if I could have any effect on the main Keflavik air defences. I could never get a missile through, and every single HARM was invariably shot down. I couldn't find an effective way to terrain mask in close enough to it either.

Despite the difficulty this was a challenging and interesting scenario. It really pointed out that you can't just 'wing it', and you need to plan and coordinate your strikes and support. Flight times must mesh! If I had properly timed my escorts, tightened up the coordination of my F-117s and SEAD, kept my support aircraft in safer zones, and used my recce properly, then my progress would have been much better. It pointed out that you have to very carefully plot your flight paths to take advantage of terrain masking, and to be prepared for when the enemy has anticipated your terrain routes and plugged them with a SAM. It also makes you face a situation where you need to be willing to recognize and admit when something's not going to work, and to call it off before it becomes a disaster. I don't think (in its initial version) it would be everyone's cup of tea, but I'm glad I played it.

From the technical side, you can't currently get the VP for destroying runways, because runways are never destroyed any more. They always stop at 99.9% damage, to simulate eventual repair opportunities. I added a trigger to give the points at 99% damage, and that seemed to work well.

I was wondering if bombing any of the HQs, communications buildings, or power plants would have an impact, but never really had a chance to try it out. I don't see anything in the events, and I was wondering if there were any plans for that sort of thing?

[Gunner98]

Andrew

Thank you for the detailed report. It gives some very good insights. This scenario has been in the cooker for over a year and has gone through some significant changes, in its initial state it ended up more an exercise in re-fueling with the strike being straight forward; not fun. Some of the earlier scenario testing pointed out some weaknesses in the defenses, so I fixed that, needed to add the CJs and Nighthawks. The discussion on the forum about IADs got me thinking and so the latest evolution was the staged engagement of the various radars, meant to give the player the feel that this was a smart, thinking enemy. So now that's working a bit too well for a game I think.

V1.7 reduced the SA-20 and the Radar count. V1.8 adds more strikers with more AMRAAMs. This may be too far but we'll have to see how it tests out. I think the core is sound enough that tinkering around the edges will narrow the margin between too difficult and too easy.

Good point on the Runways, I'll fix that.

The other targets are meant as a tease, you don't have the resources to hit them. There are two more scenarios (one to be released in a day or so) which should take care of the C2 and then a third, which is bomber focused, on taking care of some of the bigger targets, some of which you don't see yet. If you stick to the priorities your given in each scenario, you'll do well.

Appreciate your diligence on this one and your report. You did a lot better than I could have, even knowing the tricks that are in store.[&o]

B