USS Cole

Rhone · Post by **Rhone** » Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:18 pm

The point is not about reading history. The point is that all hatreds and warfares and political enemies are based on stereotypes. If the Palestinians/Isrealis/Iraqis/Americans base their concerns on something other than slighly inflated stereo-typical values then I would be impressed.

So in the meantime, All Americans are police man, all Isrealis can fly the hell out of Jet airplanes, all Iraqis are wildly irrational, all Palestinians are terrorists. And all Christians stand up and fight like men and all Muslims hide behind masks and hope to terrorize the unsuspecting.

Stereotypes are a terrible tool, but highly effective in motivating the lesser informed.

So my point being, until the Muslim community actively snuffs terrorism out, the stereotype will exist and be used against them.

Such is the way of the world.

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 6:02 pm

"Stereotypes are a terrible tool, but highly effective in motivating the lesser informed.

So my point being, until the Muslim community actively snuffs terrorism out, the stereotype will exist and be used against them."
The Koran considers Jews and Christians as "people of the book" worthy of respect and friendship. You may wish to reread it.
..and your ARE stereotyping the "Muslim Community" whatever that is. You are saying ALL Muslims support terrorism, blatantly untrue, and they died "for Allah". Your intel must be different than mine-didn't see that anywhere.
Sure the propaganda is religiously oriented, but the REALITY is it's political; whether state-sponsored or individual action. Many of these groups were rabid Marxists until that line of support died out. Then, with the rise of the Iranian Islamic state, they amazingly became fundamentalist.

jsaurman · Post by **jsaurman** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 8:26 pm

Muslims are unfairly categorized as being "terrorist oriented" when most of them are not. They are totally at the mercy of stereotypes. Like any other religion in the world, there is a liberal, centrist, and radical-extreemist wing. Unfortunately, it is the radical wing that gets all the press when they call for "holy wars" against the infidels who are poluting their culture.

All religions have the same problem, though. In the United States, we have religous extremeists who shoot and bomb doctors that work in abortion clinics, because they have been whipped into a religious frenzy by someone. Same difference. Doesn't mean that all religious people are bad, just that some are suseptible to the charismatic extremeist leaders who twist their followers weak wills to their own nefarious purposes.

Unfortunately, there are governments in this world who turn a blind eye to the extreemists and when things get blown up, they sort of shrug their collective shoulders and say "Well we can't control them" and that is what makes me mad. These governments are not actively sponsoring terrorism, but they passively stand by and watch when it is directed at other countries. If it were directed at their own country, you know that they would be tearing sh*t up to find out who did it.

JIM

U235 · Post by **U235** » Mon Oct 16, 2000 11:38 pm

Nikademus,

You right, it was a hit. It was a zodiac loaded with explosives. I read the CNO's message to the fleet, but they still are not sure (publicly) who did it, as no group has come forward.

I don't think it's fair to Moslems or Arabs in general to accept terrorism as a national/group trait. Having spent some time in the area, I found the people to be very friendly and forthcoming. I wonder if we (the US) are doing the right thing sometimes by trying to be the "world police" force. I hate to see my fellow shipmates lives wasted for no apparent reason. It one thing to die in a declared war or action, but this makes me sick. My prayers are for the surviors, injured, thier families and the families of the dead. They are the ones that must live on without thier friends and loved ones. And I hope that those that past on are in a much better place.

Dean Robb · Post by **Dean Robb** » Tue Oct 17, 2000 1:28 am

"There but for the Grace of God..."

Let us not forget that women serve on the Cole as well; and at least one has given her life in service to her country.

As a former destroyerman who has served in the area during "peacetime", I empathize with those sailors. You are on your guard anytime you're within small boat range of shore, only a "trusted" boat could get near. The Cole's sailors literaly had no chance. Prayers for the dead, the wounded...and the scarred survivors.

As to the culprit: Let us not forget that Iraq isn't exactly out of the question. Especially as Cole was en route to blockade duty.

Ismael · Post by **Ismael** » Tue Oct 17, 2000 4:28 am

Valiant women of the Cole
we remember you are there
facing danger for one goal,
“to prevent one must prepare”.

Heartland · Post by **Heartland** » Tue Oct 17, 2000 2:41 pm

Originally posted by Rhone:
If you have a problem with someone, you stand toe to toe with them and see who wins. Terrorism is for the lesser people.

That's easy to say for the big guy. I don't see Barak and Arafat lining up with six-shooters to settle the matter, nor did Clinton and Milosevic, so I don't see why this is the fault of the Palestinians, for example.

When they are armed to the hilt with F-16s and Abrams tanks, then they can stand toe to toe and settle it, otherwise it's just a big guy beating up and small kid, and that's just as cowardly as being a terrorist IMO.

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Tue Oct 17, 2000 3:34 pm

To add to the last note, one can seriously question if bombing a country with cruising missiles and high-altitude bombs is standing toe to toe with the enemy

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Tue Oct 17, 2000 4:59 pm

Since when is warfare "fair"? I've been shot at on two continents and believe me if I can kill you without risking myself or my bro's-I'm going to do it, and it's going to suck to be you.
Warfare is not some Medieval joust-it's a national contest of wills; yes I'm sure I read that somewhere...
Only an idiot, or someone with an inadequately developed sense of self-preservation, fights how his opponent fights best.

David F. Wall · Post by **David F. Wall** » Thu Nov 09, 2000 7:49 pm

Here's a reference to a site with some pretty interesting pictures of the USN packing up the Cole for transport.
http://ollies.net/usscole/

Do they still call those things LSDs? (Landing Ship Dock) My dad's second ship in the navy was and LSD (after a stint on the carrier Princeton) and I was wondering if the other ship is a more modern version.

DFW

Hussar · Post by **Hussar** » Thu Nov 09, 2000 10:15 pm

Whilst I have every sympathy for those sailors lost on the U.S.S Cole, there are two points that I would like to raise. First please do not blame Islam for a cowardly act of terrorism commited by a tiny militant minority. (I am a W.A.S.P, British ex-serviceman!). Secondly, perhaps you (the U.S) might now have a little less sympathy for those cowardly, murdering b******s of the so called IRA (and their erstwhile "companions" in the similar "loyalist" terrorist groups. Both of whom have been murdering and maiming innocent civilians and brave British soldiers alike for over 30 years!

Warrior · Post by **Warrior** » Fri Nov 10, 2000 3:27 am

My sympathy also for the families and shipmates. However, if the US didn't try to police the world (in contravention of the Constitution), there would be no such incidents. Instead of making most nations on the planet hate us for our heavy-handed interventions (most of which were never authorized by Congress) we should look to our legitimate defensive needs - such as not giving the strategic Panama Canal to China, a country whose Defense Minister says war with us is "inevitable". They way the past few administrations have gutted our military makes me think we must have lost a war somewhere that we weren't told about. Remember Pearl Harbor as the politicians leave us without a missile shield, nuclear force, decent fleet, or troops with the tools to fight.

[This message has been edited by REMF (edited November 09, 2000).]