Are We There Yet?

[Dabrion]

I think he meant to say 9% ;D

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I think he meant to say 9% ;D

warspite1

So he was talking total rubbish either way [;)]

[Dabrion]

Yea you can cherry pick your facts all you want. May I refer you to the most ridiculous Flat Earth Movement, they have mastered that art.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Yea you can cherry pick your facts all you want. May I refer you to the most ridiculous Flat Earth Movement, they have mastered that art.

warspite1

Listen Dabrion. Here we are having a grown up, mature and honest debate about the state of the game over a number of threads and you have to bring it down don’t you?

Look, we all know your back story – it’s real ahem…sad; Dabrion buys computer wargame. Wargame proves not to be what he thought. Dabrion gets (not without justification) angry. Dabrion starts making silly comments about having a lawyer friend who is suing Matrix. Dabrion hangs around venting anger towards anyone associated with the game, goes away, comes back for more, goes away, comes back for more.

Newsflash. You are not the first computer wargamer this has happened to. It’s a fact of life of the war gaming world. Ask anyone on the Matrix forum and the vast majority will say it’s happened to them. It’s life. Stop being such a child and get over it.

You mention flat earth, but where have I suggested that all is right with this game? Where have I cherry picked facts? Anyone who says this game is 9% finished is plain stupid (although I don't know any that have said that). Anyone who says this game is 90% done is deluded (although I don't know any that have said that).

The truth is of course that the answer lies somewhere in between. But a sensible, mature view? these are things sadly you appear to lack the ability to put forward - certainly where this game is concerned.

[Dabrion]

Hope it is all cosy up there..

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

Hope it is all cosy up there..

warspite1

[&:] - there is more chance of holding a sensible grown up conversation with a two year old than there is with you. You are just a sulky little child who has lost a few quid on a game and feels the whole world should feel sorry for him [8|].

[AlbertN]

Given I've the luck of an opponent which was up to play this game (alas he changed mind, but that is because of how long the game takes; not because of the game being disfunctional) - this is the best wargame around on a PC platform at the present if you can find 1 opponent to play it.

Why?

First because it comes with the playability limits that are typical of the Tabletop gaming. They're studied and shaped around a human player doing everything and not a computer. (That for example is what rules out for me a product like War in the East, among many other things. If you want to be good at that game, you have to swim through way too many details).

Lack of AI is more than fine, any strategy game that I've played has a crappy AI. Real crap. So that in order to compete it has to "cheat". That gives a distorted perception of the game often. Besides the more complex a game is, the worse the AI is at handling situation. That on top of the limited resources MWiF benefits of... I doubt the AI will ever see live.

That is a personal point - but to play solo bores the hell out of me. But for a few it is entertaining.

Do you like to play solo against yourself? Buy this game.
Do you have some reliable player that would play against you via mail (not suggested due to long waiting times) or in real time via Skype / Shared Screen? Buy this game.
Otherwise, I would not suggest to buy this game.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

I think he meant to say 9% ;D

warspite1

So he was talking total rubbish either way [;)]

I did not say "this game is 90% finished". I said "this game is 90% "there" the way Operation Market Garden was 90% successful. "

This was posted yesterday, relative to when we can expect the next beta:

"In the last version given to the beta test team by Steve, there are some fatal bugs occuring. Those need to be crushed first IMHO..."

So, after three years we have public betas (aimed at finally finishing at least netplay, half-map scenarios, the missing options and a correct implementation of the rules) being delayed due to bugs. This is the current state of this game.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: Cohen
Do you like to play solo against yourself? Buy this game.
Do you have some reliable player that would play against you via mail (not suggested due to long waiting times) or in real time via Skype / Shared Screen? Buy this game.
Otherwise, I would not suggest to buy this game.

Or you can buy the next tabletop edition with RAW8 (or the current RAW7 one if you find it fine) and either play solo/with your friends around a table, or on the internet via VASSAL.

[rkr1958]

ORIGINAL: Cohen
Do you like to play solo against yourself? Buy this game.
Do you have some reliable player that would play against you via mail (not suggested due to long waiting times)

I'm finding that playing via email works very well against a trusted opponent. Pat and I started our game back in early July and we've just finished the Nov/Dec 1941 turn.

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

ORIGINAL: Cohen
Do you like to play solo against yourself? Buy this game.
Do you have some reliable player that would play against you via mail (not suggested due to long waiting times) or in real time via Skype / Shared Screen? Buy this game.
Otherwise, I would not suggest to buy this game.

Or you can buy the next tabletop edition with RAW8 (or the current RAW7 one if you find it fine) and either play solo/with your friends around a table, or on the internet via VASSAL.

Sure you can. If you are living in a house big enough that you can dedicate an entire quite large room for over a year to MWIF, without getting into problems with the wife, kids, cats etc.
Now, my version of the board game has been gathering dust in the attic for a long, long time now, since I don't have a large room to spare...
And to play the game through Vassal? I've done that, and I didn't like it. The rules are not enforced by Vassal...
Since I've got involved in testing MWIF I've had some pretty nasty surprises, where the rules are concerned. Obscure situation where one, when playing over the board or with Vassal, will surely make mistakes with rule interpretations...

Also: I don't like the way you have put in here the comment I made when someone asked when the next public beta comes around. This quote of mine had nothing to do with the current public beta version. If you do so, I would like you to mention the context where you got the quote from next time (or even better: don't lift a quote out of the context where it was found).

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: Centuur
And to play the game through Vassal? I've done that, and I didn't like it. The rules are not enforced by Vassal...

Nor they are incorrectly enforced by some bug. And VASSAL does work over the internet - the feature is not "mostly there".

Since I've got involved in testing MWIF I've had some pretty nasty surprises, where the rules are concerned. Obscure situation where one, when playing over the board or with Vassal, will surely make mistakes with rule interpretations...

Then don't ever play any board wargame - either on your kitchen table or on VASSAL - because the above is a normal happening.

I, too, hoped for a over-the-Net version which allowed me to play with people all around the world while implementing the rules for me. This three years ago. Meanwhile some Italian WiF players somehow managed to complete three full campaigns via VASSAL. The AARs are on BGG.

Also: I don't like the way you have put in here the comment I made when someone asked when the next public beta comes around. This quote of mine had nothing to do with the current public beta version.

This was posted yesterday, relative to when we can expect the next beta:

If you do so, I would like you to mention the context where you got the quote from next time (or even better: don't lift a quote out of the context where it was found).

This was posted yesterday, relative to when we can expect the next beta

What "context" do you find missing, here?

[juntoalmar]

ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

I, too, hoped for a over-the-Net version which allowed me to play with people all around the world while implementing the rules for me. This three years ago. Meanwhile some Italian WiF players somehow managed to complete three full campaigns via VASSAL. The AARs are on BGG.

If you are interested you can find on this forum AAR from people who are playing MWiF "over-the-net" while rules are being enforced, supply is automatically calculated and so on. NetPlay may not be completely polished, but you can play through TeamViewer, Skype, Google Hangouts, or similar solutions which, in my opinion, probably work better to NetPlay when it's finished. I don't need NetPlay at all to be honest.

[Viktor_Kormel_slith]

And don´t forget you can play in hotseat mode with your old or new game buddies! Vassal and boardgame are remains of the past for most of us. Too many logistic problems and at least for me, a lot of lazyness.

[TeaLeaf]

I suggest reading thread in the link the below. I found some excellent posts in there, really inspiring.
Especially the 3rd post, from Warspite1. It says all I feel about MWiF.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4187072

Also all the help/support you'll get from everybody on these forums (fora? [:'(]) is really great. If you stumble upon a point in the game that you cannot get past, someone of the team will more likely than not get you past it. This great community makes up for quite a bit.

All that said, that doesn't mean the game still needs to be lifted up, but I have gathered a lot of faith in the people who work on it.

[Omnius]

Bill of Empires in Arms Development Team,
What's really sad is that your team failed to get the money trade feature working except in PBEM. Know how annoying it is to have to play EiA in PBEM mode just to be able to trade money as Britain? I also play EiA solitaire for each country, beats playing that Artificial Ignorance!

[Omnius]

Aranthus,
My one big pet peeve is convoy system too, waiting for oil tankers to make it better.

[Omnius]

paulderynck,
There's a lot of missing features that seemed to become included in a second version add-on. You know like oil tankers. Plus other features in the manual that hadn't been coded as of release. Are these going to be included in the base game over time without costing us more?

[Omnius]

Shannon V. OKeets,
Hopefully you can answer my question. It seemed like there would be two versions of MWiF. The first had most of the rules and maps and such. I thought there would be an update for sale that would include the optional rules and units that weren't included in the first release. I've been waiting to see oil tankers to help make the convoy function better, then sending oil won't mess up cargo pipelines. So is there a second release coming to include the rest or are you including all of it slowly but surely for free in the first release?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: Omnius

Shannon V. OKeets,
Hopefully you can answer my question. It seemed like there would be two versions of MWiF. The first had most of the rules and maps and such. I thought there would be an update for sale that would include the optional rules and units that weren't included in the first release. I've been waiting to see oil tankers to help make the convoy function better, then sending oil won't mess up cargo pipelines. So is there a second release coming to include the rest or are you including all of it slowly but surely for free in the first release?

The missing optional rules and 2 scenarios will part of a normal (no cost) update. That is explained early in the first volume of the Players Manual. Those plans haven't changed.