R&D question

[InfiniteMonkey]

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing

I have a question

July 1942, I plan to start from scratch R&D program for Ki-100 I Tony.

I will have 3 R&D lanes available
I was wondering if it s faster to start the R&D with Ki-100 I Tony, or to go through the whole 'Tony' lane starting with Ki-61a ?

SC 1
PDU ON
I will not produce any Kawasaki Ha-60


My point is that Ki-100 I Tony is available on March 1945, so it will take very long time to build the R&D Ki-100 I Tony from 0(30) to 30(0)

But if I start with Ki-61 Ia Tony available February 1943, it is very likely that my 3 lanes will be fully functionnal [30(0)] by end of 1942, and then jumping from Ki-61 Ia to Ki-61 Ib (09/43) , Ki-61 Id (04/44), Ki-61 II KAI (08/44)...

So what should be fastest option to get the Ki-100 Tony ?

I plugged the numbers into a spreadsheet using the conditions you specified. The short answer:

- If you research the Ki-100 as an base model, factories repair on approximately 12/20/1943 and would then arrive on 5/25/1944.

- If you research each step along the line fully before starting research on the next in line, the Ki-100 will likely arrive on 7/21/1944 - almost 2 months later.

- If you research the air frame and then decide to try a new engine, the Ki-100 becomes available on 7/22/1944, approximately 10 to 12 months earlier.

Please note that these are theoretical calculations based upon predicted dates for repair of the research factories. YMMV.

Also note that in all cases, I assumed that you had > 500 Mitsubishi Ha-33 engines in the pool during research of the Ki-100, but 0 Kawasaki Ha-60.

[ElvisDaKing]

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing

I have a question

July 1942, I plan to start from scratch R&D program for Ki-100 I Tony.

I will have 3 R&D lanes available
I was wondering if it s faster to start the R&D with Ki-100 I Tony, or to go through the whole 'Tony' lane starting with Ki-61a ?

SC 1
PDU ON
I will not produce any Kawasaki Ha-60


My point is that Ki-100 I Tony is available on March 1945, so it will take very long time to build the R&D Ki-100 I Tony from 0(30) to 30(0)

But if I start with Ki-61 Ia Tony available February 1943, it is very likely that my 3 lanes will be fully functionnal [30(0)] by end of 1942, and then jumping from Ki-61 Ia to Ki-61 Ib (09/43) , Ki-61 Id (04/44), Ki-61 II KAI (08/44)...

So what should be fastest option to get the Ki-100 Tony ?

I plugged the numbers into a spreadsheet using the conditions you specified. The short answer:

- If you research the Ki-100 as an base model, factories repair on approximately 12/20/1943 and would then arrive on 5/25/1944.

- If you research each step along the line fully before starting research on the next in line, the Ki-100 will likely arrive on 7/21/1944 - almost 2 months later.

- If you research the air frame and then decide to try a new engine, the Ki-100 becomes available on 7/22/1944, approximately 10 to 12 months earlier.

Please note that these are theoretical calculations based upon predicted dates for repair of the research factories. YMMV.

Also note that in all cases, I assumed that you had > 500 Mitsubishi Ha-33 engines in the pool during research of the Ki-100, but 0 Kawasaki Ha-60.

Thanks
Very Impressive...

But if I understood correctly your chart, you considered Research starting date on 7/December 1941 when I plan to start on 1st July 1942...
Would it change the date and the fact that researching Ki-100 will be better option ?


Can you please elaborate the option to reach availability date in July 1943, not sure to understand...
Presume you mean '7/22/1943'
- If you research the air frame and then decide to try a new engine, the Ki-100 becomes available on 7/22/1944, approximately 10 to 12 months earlier.

You meant start R&D with Ki-61a and then upgrading directly to Ki-100 , bypassing Ki-61 Ib, etc... ?

[InfiniteMonkey]

ORIGINAL: ElvisDaKing
But if I understood correctly your chart, you considered Research starting date on 7/December 1941 when I plan to start on 1st July 1942...
Would it change the date and the fact that researching Ki-100 will be better option ?

Can you please elaborate the option to reach availability date in July 1943, not sure to understand...
Presume you mean '7/22/1943'
- If you research the air frame and then decide to try a new engine, the Ki-100 becomes available on 7/22/1944, approximately 10 to 12 months earlier.

You meant start R&D with Ki-61a and then upgrading directly to Ki-100 , bypassing Ki-61 Ib, etc... ?

Yup, I meant if you switch the Ki-61-Ia factories to Ki-100-Ia as soon as the Ki-61-Ia research facilities are fully repaired. You must switch one step at a time, upgrading first to Ki-61-Ib, then Ki-61-Id, etc. It is more clicks but all in one turn. If your factory is on Ki-61-Ia and you try to jump to the Ki-100-Ia, then they will be damaged in that process. You HAVE to choose the upgrade for the factory to avoid damage, but you can do multiple "upgrades" in one day.

Revised spreadsheet with 7/1/1942 start date for all scenarios:

[rustysi]

ElvisDaKing. Are you playing against the AI or in a PBEM game? If you are in a PBEM game you should check with your opponent before you start. What you are being advised to do is frowned upon by many Allied players. You would be skipping R&D levels in the A/C progression. IOW many players feel you must research each progression of an A/C before starting the next. The R&D portion of the game is a cookie that the devs gave to the Japanese players such that they may stay competitive in the air further into the game. Uses such as this may be looked on as abuse of that cookie.

The above is JMHO, but does match the way I wish to play. How you play your game is up to you, just be aware that against a human opponent there may be disagreement in this instance.

[InfiniteMonkey]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

ElvisDaKing. Are you playing against the AI or in a PBEM game? If you are in a PBEM game you should check with your opponent before you start. What you are being advised to do is frowned upon by many Allied players. You would be skipping R&D levels in the A/C progression. IOW many players feel you must research each progression of an A/C before starting the next. The R&D portion of the game is a cookie that the devs gave to the Japanese players such that they may stay competitive in the air further into the game. Uses such as this may be looked on as abuse of that cookie.

The above is JMHO, but does match the way I wish to play. How you play your game is up to you, just be aware that against a human opponent there may be disagreement in this instance.

Directly researching the Ki-100 is faster than the proposed method by a margin of weeks to months. This is without skipping - repair Ki-100 research factories and you will beat the "no skip" approach you "approve". Do you consider this gamey as well?

Note: I regard the Ki-61 to Ki-100 and A6M2 to A6M8 paths as far more legitimate than getting Ki-84's in early 43 or A7M's in late 44. The wonder is that they did not fit more powerful engines sooner given the previous examples of performance increases from changing engines: A6M, B5N, Ki-21, etc. I just do not understand the mindset that it is okay with Ki-84's appearing in 1943, but balks at a Ki-100 in the same period. On some level, I feel like you should just ask your opponents to adhere to a house rule to "set all research factories to Not Repair and do not change size of any R&D factories" to get rid of research all together.

JMHO...

[ElvisDaKing]

I am playing PBEM

Actually I was not aware that we can do multi upgrade same day on an achieved (blue) R&D lane without damaging it...

I don t know if its gamey, but it appears to me to be a system exploit as I presume if I do the 'next' upgrade on the following day, then the R&D lane will be damaged - need to do the test at home...
So, as a personal opinion and without any judgment for those who are not doing same, I will not use it.

[rustysi]

Directly researching the Ki-100 is faster than the proposed

You are missing the point. I follow the wire chart that is available in some thread herein. I haven't looked for it because I have a hard copy that I use while playing. Therefore the series begins with the Ki-61-1a or 1c, chart allows you to start with either, not sure why. Dev decision AFAIK. So you will not get to the Ki-100 for some time.

As for the Frank, Ki-84a, its due in Jan '44 so a start date of sometime in '43 is attainable using the method provided in the game. How early '43 I don't know, but the effort would be both substantial and costly to get it very early. I'll have to see in my current game, but I don't think I will receive it before mid-year. Again a dev decision. There's no skipping or such.

As I've always stated anyway, you may play your way and I will mine. Doubt we shall ever be opponents as its obvious we won't agree on this subject. In addition I was simply pointing out to the op that he should check with his opponent before using the method you propose.

[rustysi]

Correction to what I posted above...

Ki-84a is due to arrive Apr '44, my chart was wrong, has been corrected. All this means is that the 84 should arrive even later, unless you throw everything at it. That may be done with any Japanese A/C, at a cost.