Air / helo escort of a surface fleet

[thewood1]

Again, I mdon't get this attitude at all. The thing you are trying to do is in the manual. Patrols and reference points are the two biggest concepts in the game. And the fact you can't be arsed to not only read the manual, but read the replies from several people trying to help you does not say a lot about you consideration for the people taking the time.

[spinecruncher]

the message boards are here for a reason too knuckle-head

[thewood1]

Really, I didn't know that. And I would be VERY careful on the personal insult front.

One thing I know the forums aren't here for is a personal training session for anyone without enough common courtesy to read replies and read the manual. Again, one of the core concepts for Command and you've got 3 or 4 people helping, all telling you the same basic thing, yet you con't seem to comprehend it. What do you have spread throughout these forums? Five, maybe six vert similar threads of multiple people explaining what to do on basic game mechanics, and multiple times. Asking the same questions in multiple threads. Failing to read responses. Its all there. Point me any person in the four years of this forum that did anything close to that.

[Peter66]

OK I just want to enter this discussion as I've been watching it, and others similar. I spend a good amount of time myself helping new users or people who are confused about features. The issue I am seeing here is that thewood1 is answering a question and rather than just leave the question empty, he then points people to the manual so they can further their knowledge. Instead of saying thank you, reading the manual, then showing they have made an effort, people are coming back and just asking a question that is really easy to find an answer to. Then attempting to make people like thewood1 look bad.

Here's a thought for you all to consider: I've seen thriving communities fail horribly because of infighting. Both online and in real life. Step back, relax and think before posting negative replies to one another. Command's community is small enough as it is without people trying to "one-up" one another. I don't think anybody is declining anyone help, but remember that we do this for free, in our own time. So for those who do ask for help, which I'm sure is all of us at one stage or another, keep in mind that a little effort at the start goes a long way.

Not everyone reads a manual, but then again it's not designed to be read start to finish. Resources like the manual, Mega-FAQ and Google Search answer 90% of my questions. This saves time and if I do need to ask a question by showing you've done a bit of effort before hand really goes a long way in making people go out of their way to help you.

[spinecruncher]

You are being a jerk now Peter. I had genuine questions about reference points and unit behavior in light of what I read in the manuals. So arrogant.

[thewood1]

You're welcome

[mikmykWS]

Honestly having conversations about what users should know, do etc is kind of off-putting.

Yes I know I should be off-pudding too[:D]

M

[thewood1]

Its not about what they know...its about what they do...or are not willing to do.

[mikmykWS]

I don't disagree with that but the solution is probably not browbeating or shaming them which is what some of these posts read like. This is especially true if you're new or interested in the game. It just makes this place and the community look bad.

I'd suggest not responding to new users if you don't have the patience or it's not your thing.

Thanks!

Mike

[spinecruncher]

Not sure what you agree with mikmyk but I did nothing wrong just to be on the record, I have watched videos, and read the manual, that does not mean I am going to automatically understand something (or that other people will). I have paid good money for this product and it was advertised when I purchased it that the board could be used to help learn the title. The fact that bullies are allowed to prowl on this board is discouraging and will make me think twice next time I purchase an item on Matrix. This will probably be the last title I purchase on Matrix because I do not like the fact that such an expensive and complicated game is sold and that I am discouraged from coming on here and communicating with people on how to learn the game...

[mikmykWS]

ORIGINAL: ballyhoo

Not sure what you agree with mikmyk but I did nothing wrong just to be on the record, I have watched videos, and read the manual, that does not mean I am going to automatically understand something (or that other people will). I have paid good money for this product and it was advertised when I purchased it that the board could be used to help learn the title. The fact that bullies are allowed to prowl on this board is discouraging and will make me think twice next time I purchase an item on Matrix. This will probably be the last title I purchase on Matrix because I do not like the fact that such an expensive and complicated game is sold and that I am discouraged from coming on here and communicating with people on how to learn the game...

I understand and very sorry for that. My post wasn't directed at you at all. I hope your next game purchase goes well wherever you buy it.

Mike

[ultradave]

ORIGINAL: ballyhoo

This will probably be the last title I purchase on Matrix because I do not like the fact that such an expensive and complicated game is sold and that I am discouraged from coming on here and communicating with people on how to learn the game...

Well, you've gotten plenty of good help here. If I were you I'd just let pass the one person who gets under your skin. Keep working on the game. There is a lot to learn. Remember what I said. Missions are your friend. For the question that started this, the best way is several reference points (box triangle, whatever), set relative to your ship, then set an ASW mission or AAW mission depending on the threat, for that box. If you have more than one helicopter, then assign both, select the 1/3 rule and keep 1 on station, and voila, done.

For AAW another idea is to forget the relative box, send him out off axis at low altitude, pop up, turn on the radar and see what's out there. That way you don't have his radar signature sitting over the top of your ship. Kind of like active sonar, using your radar is going to advertise where you are. Of course, if they've already found you......

[spinecruncher]

I appreciate all the positive support I have received from many people on this board - it more than makes up for the one jerk. People should not be shamed for tying to learn -- and I have read a lot of the manual, but there is more to it than that. For example the rotating reference point works great for getting a helo or other unit to circle around a larger ship in a predictable manner. I have so far had less success when trying to get a MTB to from a fixed point shadow on the starboard or port side of a larger unit. I have tried locking and unlocking the reference point but somehow I have not yet made it work the way I want. And there is so much more I want to learn -- it is exciting this great technology of a war simulation.

Edit, it must be that I am assigning the MTBs patrol missions that even though there point is a fixed reference they are still going to patrol around. I will try support mission to see of they do not wander so much. apparently they Capt's have their own ideas of where to navigate

I just ask, and many have voiced up and I am grateful -- do not allow others to try and shame or berate people asking questions. What seems self evident to one might be completely confusing. I cannot imagine the person that has berated me is any kind of normal human being so I shouldn't get frazzled. at the suggesting of someone here, I have blocked him. Thanks again!

[ultradave]

" I have so far had less success when trying to get a MTB to from a fixed point shadow on the starboard or port side of a larger unit. I have tried locking and unlocking the reference point but somehow I have not yet made it work the way I want."

Can you explain this more? Not sure what you are trying to do from the description.

[Sigma8510]

On a related note, I have had issues with surface units assigned to relative reference point ASW mission patrol boxes around a convoy falling way out of station. Thought it might be related to them attempting to prosecute contacts outside of the box, so I set the mission to not allow this behavior. The surface units still do not maintain station within the boxes well at all. Away from my game computer, but plan on posting a save example in the tech support forum this weekend.

[ultradave]

I think this was fixed. It definitely was an issue. I'll see if I can find the posting that described this.

[edit] - This thread might describe the problem you are seeing, but if you are up to date the below issue shouldn't be happening:

tm.asp?m=4281225&mpage=1&key=&#4281670

[spinecruncher]

I assume I have to be up to date to have the fix for the problem? I tried running the latest version from the members section but I am still at V 1.2 B 936.21.

[spinecruncher]

All I am trying to do is assign a station from one unit to another using the fixed reference point function. For example I want to have an MTB shadow a frigate on the starboard side. I create a reference point, place it where I want the MTB to station in relation to the frigate. I make that point fixed bearing in relation to the frigate. I create a patrol mission with the MTB and on the mission editor I select the MTB unit assign it a patrol ASUW mission and I make sure that one fixed reference point is in the mission editor box where it needs to be (the box where you normally have four points if you are assigning a specific defined area to patrol now there is just that one fixed reference point which is in relation to the frigate). Then I run the game. I would expect that the MTB will travel where that one fixed reference point is, but it never does, it strays somewhere completely different. The rotating points work well though, I do not want an MTB rotating around the frigate.

[mikmykWS]

If the MTB is on the same side I'd group the ships together and use the formation editor to assign a station.

If you want a potentially hostile MTB to shadow try assigning the MTB to a surface patrol mission with an area that includes the target and make sure MTB's side is unfriendly to the target ship. This will cause the MTB to follow and do everything but attack (unfriendly posture causes this). You can then design or script in what happens if and when the contact goes hostile.

Mike

[ultradave]

Oh, I see. Ok, what you want for this is the Formation Editor, F4. First, right now, read the manual, page 55 at the bottom and onto page 56. Then read the rest of this.

Group selected units, open up the F E with F4, designate the frigate as the base unit, then select the MTB, select relative, click on the map where you want him relative to the frigate, and it will do it's best to maintain station. That's all you have to do. No mission. From then on you give your orders to the group, not the two individual units.

There's a check box for sprint and drift is not described in the original manual. It's a newer feature. Basically, an escort will sprint ahead at high speed, then slow to a crawl to listen (for subs). Then repeat. Good if your formation is moving at speed but you have an ASW threat to worry about. Other than that the manual has good descriptions of the options.

Previously we were discussing the missions and reference points because those make more sense for air units that are out front or patrolling for enemy A/C or subs. If you just want ships to keep station and "escort" others, then F4 is what you want.

[edit] Since you've been playing NI scenarios, open up the Beware of the Badgers scenario and you'll be starting with 3 large task forces, all set in formations around the most important units (Aircraft Carriers and Amphibious Landing Ships). You can get a good idea of how they work, reset the formations to different, play around with it.

Oh, and you can open F4 at any time and modify a formation. When you restart the game the ships will adjust. Might take some minutes depending on what you asked for (think about it - they are moving forward, and you've asked them to either move up or drop back and maybe spread out - takes time because their RELATIVE speed to each other is quite slow)