lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel Mine" button

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Moose, I will move to Melbourne, but I had the same exact problem with the SS-28. I tried Melbourne and Sydney, both no joy.

No, I never had either the 28 or the 34 in a Sub Transport mission. SOmething is missing with these buttons-graphically-I think as I'm having the same problem with the Aerial mine-laying.

Since they're both button problems it's probably a graphics issue. I can't see anything wrong on any of the screen shots. My only thought on Transport was they had a hanging bit in the DB and re-forming and re-disbanding might recast the DB record. If it's only at Sydney you might have a pwhex glitch too. If you can't aerial mine from any base then it's global and maybe drivers, or other.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Air superiority isn't an issue as the only two Japanese air bases are both closed by Allied bombing daily. I don't even think there are any planes left at either base.

The closest enemy unit is 11 hexes away.

And why not mine-laying button?

Was the sub ever in a Transport TF?

Even if it wasn't, have you tried putting it in a new TF, then disbanding it again? If that doesn't work, move it to Melbourne.

At one time you had to have the withdrawing unit at it's own National Base (SFO for the US) before it would withdraw. This was fixed a couple of patches ago so that any size 7 port can be used. What version of the game are you playing?

[Rusty1961]

Thanks, guys, probably a driver issue.

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Moose, I will move to Melbourne, but I had the same exact problem with the SS-28. I tried Melbourne and Sydney, both no joy.

No, I never had either the 28 or the 34 in a Sub Transport mission. SOmething is missing with these buttons-graphically-I think as I'm having the same problem with the Aerial mine-laying.

Since they're both button problems it's probably a graphics issue. I can't see anything wrong on any of the screen shots. My only thought on Transport was they had a hanging bit in the DB and re-forming and re-disbanding might recast the DB record. If it's only at Sydney you might have a pwhex glitch too. If you can't aerial mine from any base then it's global and maybe drivers, or other.

No Moose, it is not drivers. I know you are trying to be helpful but when you are consistently given a bum steer by the OP ....

The answer re aerial minelaying is found in post #16 where it is stated that the mines have been stockpiled since 1 January 1943.

Engineers are supposed to be very logical. Mathematical competency is a necessary requirement of any competent engineer. One cannot be competent in mathematics if one is not very logical.

So let's be logical. What does stockpiling mines, or for that matter any other device, do? It stops any mine from leaving the stockpile. If mines are not leaving the stockpile where are they found. Answer is the mines are found in the stockpile. Would a logical person then expect to find the mines elsewhere, for example at the airfield where the planes are located. Answer is no for how exactly would the mines have moved from the stockpile. Ergo if there are no mines at the airfield, exactly how would the aircraft be able to drop the mines which are not present, on an enemy base. It therefore follows logically that the button to drop mines is not present for it is impossible to logically undertake the mission.

Everyone should just try a very simple test. Pick any unit capable of a city attack. With the Mk 13 not stockpiled see if the minelaying mission button is present. Then try it with the Mk 13 stockpiled and you won't find the button.

All this would have been obvious with a screenshot of the mine stockpiles.

I won't bother responding to the OP's perennially raised issue in other threads of withdrawal other than to say once again there is no logical process involved in his statements.

Alfred

[Bullwinkle58]

Ah. I see in Post #16 he does say he "stockpiled" the mines. I missed that. Nor would it have penetrated to my mind as I can't see any reason to ever do that to mines in the device inventory screen. It's not as if they can wander off, or be used by a unit you want to withhold from, as LCU devices can be. Also, the word "stockpiled" in general English can be used in two ways. Either forcibly prevented from leaving, as the game uses it, or just "being produced and piled up", with no locus really intended in the definition.

But sure, if he clicked the Stockpile button, that is a more elegant reason the whole map is bereft than any I came up with.

On the sub I continue to not see a cause if air superiority isn't it. Am I missing something in the screenshot?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Ah. I see in Post #16 he does say he "stockpiled" the mines. I missed that. Nor would it have penetrated to my mind as I can't see any reason to ever do that to mines in the device inventory screen. It's not as if they can wander off, or be used by a unit you want to withhold from, as LCU devices can be. Also, the word "stockpiled" in general English can be used in two ways. Either forcibly prevented from leaving, as the game uses it, or just "being produced and piled up", with no locus really intended in the definition.

But sure, if he clicked the Stockpile button, that is a more elegant reason the whole map is bereft than any I came up with.

On the sub I continue to not see a cause if air superiority isn't it. Am I missing something in the screenshot?

No, you are not "missing something in the screenshot" for the simple reason that the screenshot shown in post #3 does not disclose all the pertinent data. Recall that in my 101 ship repair guide I strongly recommended that all ship repairs should be conducted via the manage ship repair button, not the individual ship info screen. The post #3 screenshot only discloses details of the sub, it does not disclose the complete details of the repair status. For example that screenshot does not disclose whether the sub is still within the 3 day activation period from offline to online status.

As to air superiority, that still remains very much in the equation. After all these years it still amazes me that you and the others who have provided helpful comments keep on trusting the accuracy of any comment of the OP's. Just because he claims in post #13 air superiority isn't the cause simply does not make it so.

Alfred

[Rusty1961]

How ironic that it was Alfred's diatribe that allowed me to fix the aerial mine problem.

Thanks, buddy.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

How ironic that it was Alfred's diatribe that allowed me to fix the aerial mine problem.

Thanks, buddy.

I feel pretty chagrined that I never thought of turning off the stockpile button - but I don't use that very much so it would not come to mind easily. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

[Rusty1961]

There is no reason to have a "Stockpile" button on ariel mines since only deploying them via the "mine" button on a City attack mission is the only way to deplete said mines. It is a flaw in the program.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

There is no reason to have a "Stockpile" button on ariel mines since only deploying them via the "mine" button on a City attack mission is the only way to deplete said mines. It is a flaw in the program.

No, it is not a flaw in the program. Those devices are just another device and the devices list handles them like any other, including a stockpile button. (And BTW players could choose to use it to keep themselves from making an error, say ordering a mine drop when they forget they are saving for a large op.) Instead it is the absence of an exception to normal handling of that device, the absence of special code for that device, the absence of a feature. It might be something you think should be there but fairness to the developers requires acknowledging it is not a bug. [8D]

[Rusty1961]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

There is no reason to have a "Stockpile" button on ariel mines since only deploying them via the "mine" button on a City attack mission is the only way to deplete said mines. It is a flaw in the program.

No, it is not a flaw in the program. Those devices are just another device and the devices list handles them like any other, including a stockpile button. (And BTW players could choose to use it to keep themselves from making an error, say ordering a mine drop when they forget they are saving for a large op.) Instead it is the absence of an exception to normal handling of that device, the absence of special code for that device, the absence of a feature. It might be something you think should be there but fairness to the developers requires acknowledging it is not a bug. [8D]

Okay, poor programming instead of a bug. The only way said device gets "depleted' is by a conscious action, not like supplies which can inadvertently be sent off by the computer AI from Chungking to some base you didn't want supplies to go.

Having a secondary key-stroke is an unnecessary redundancy.

[Alfred]

Having the option of stockpiling aerial mines is not poor programming.  In order to not present that option to the player it would be necessary to remove the stockpile option from all other devices.
 
The logistic algorithms never, ever, inadvertently move supply.  The movement rules are well known and no competent player is taken by surprise as to their operation.  The competent player both incorporates those rules into their planning and utilises the tools provided by the devs to direct their operation to support their planning.
 
It is an insult to the devs to blame them for a player's own incompetence.  In any computer game there are definite limits faced by devs in how to foolproof the game from incompetence.  It does not present AE in a good light to prospective buyers, or new players who might feel overwhelmed by the scope of the game, to regularly claim there is a deficiency in the code when on every occasion such a claim has been made (and one needs to remember the complainer has been posting to the AE forum for more than 6 years), it has ultimately always been demonstrated that the code merely implemented the complainer's own decisions.
 
Alfred

[Rusty1961]

Alfred,

Why would one need a stockpile button is the only way to deplete said devices is if I made a conscious decision to use them? I can understand having a stockpile button for supplies at an important base, but is there some other way than flying a aerial mining mission that I'm missing?

Curious about this.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Alfred,

Why would one need a stockpile button is the only way to deplete said devices is if I made a conscious decision to use them? I can understand having a stockpile button for supplies at an important base, but is there some other way than flying a aerial mining mission that I'm missing?

Curious about this.

You really aren't seeing the fact that there is no special stockpile button for mines. There is a stockpile button (sort of a button) for every device in the list, because the code treats all devices the same. You can plainly see that is a big list of all devices. Mines are just in there with the rest of them. There is not a deliberately placed stockpile button for mines. There is the absence of special treatment for mines; the absence of making a special list for mines; the absence of making a special window just for mines. It is not poor programming that volunteers who put in tons of hours doing amazing things did not make that particular extra thing.

If one doesn't need a stockpile button for mines, then one should not use it and mines won't be set to stockpile.

[Rusty1961]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Alfred,

Why would one need a stockpile button is the only way to deplete said devices is if I made a conscious decision to use them? I can understand having a stockpile button for supplies at an important base, but is there some other way than flying a aerial mining mission that I'm missing?

Curious about this.

You really aren't seeing the fact that there is no special stockpile button for mines. There is a stockpile button (sort of a button) for every device in the list, because the code treats all devices the same. You can plainly see that is a big list of all devices. Mines are just in there with the rest of them. There is not a deliberately placed stockpile button for mines. There is the absence of special treatment for mines; the absence of making a special list for mines; the absence of making a special window just for mines. It is not poor programming that volunteers who put in tons of hours doing amazing things did not make that particular extra thing.

If one doesn't need a stockpile button for mines, then one should not use it and mines won't be set to stockpile.

Don't be silly, I see it nice and clear...NOW.

You really don't get why this is confusing? I was able to have Subs conduct mine-laying missions and I never had to flip a switch to get the sub to preform the mission.

Not into the passive-aggressive language. Mine was a legitimate question so don't denegrate me.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

ORIGINAL: witpqs

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Alfred,

Why would one need a stockpile button is the only way to deplete said devices is if I made a conscious decision to use them? I can understand having a stockpile button for supplies at an important base, but is there some other way than flying a aerial mining mission that I'm missing?

Curious about this.

You really aren't seeing the fact that there is no special stockpile button for mines. There is a stockpile button (sort of a button) for every device in the list, because the code treats all devices the same. You can plainly see that is a big list of all devices. Mines are just in there with the rest of them. There is not a deliberately placed stockpile button for mines. There is the absence of special treatment for mines; the absence of making a special list for mines; the absence of making a special window just for mines. It is not poor programming that volunteers who put in tons of hours doing amazing things did not make that particular extra thing.

If one doesn't need a stockpile button for mines, then one should not use it and mines won't be set to stockpile.

Don't be silly, I see it nice and clear...NOW.

You really don't get why this is confusing? I was able to have Subs conduct mine-laying missions and I never had to flip a switch to get the sub to preform the mission.

Not into the passive-aggressive language. Mine was a legitimate question so don't denegrate me.

I am not denigrating you and nothing in my language was passive-aggressive.

[geofflambert]

Hey, Ariel is mine. Keep your mitts off!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Don't be silly, I see it nice and clear...NOW.

You really don't get why this is confusing? I was able to have Subs conduct mine-laying missions and I never had to flip a switch to get the sub to preform the mission.

Not into the passive-aggressive language. Mine was a legitimate question so don't denegrate me.

You could have just stopped with your first sentence above. Everybody who plays this game has had head-slapping moments. Witpqs was just being clear and complete. There was no animus.

In the device screen, Mines are a separate category that can be sorted for so they are the only devices shown. It takes a bit of effort to go down every line and click Stockpile to Yes for each type of mine. You have to do that consciously. If you don't it's possible to load subs with their mines while also preventing aerial mines from being available.

But it's also possible to form a Sub Minelaying TF with their mines on stockpile. The code will let you. The TF will show 0 in the ammo line if you look, but you can form the TF. It won't lay anything.

There are some places in the code where I wish there were error traps. This isn't one of them for me, but maybe for you. The game does expect a pretty high level of player watchfulness on events that more modern games error trap. It's just one of those things.

[Rusty1961]

"You really aren't seeing the facts". Stop it. It was insulting.

I'm done here. I made my point.

Good day.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

"You really aren't seeing the facts". Stop it. It was insulting.

I'm done here. I made my point.

Good day.

It was not insulting it was factual and intended to ask you to look at what I spelled out next. No insult was intended and any taken was on your end. [8D]