Tournament

[KorutZelva]

Or we can all start on the floor and let the pyramid build itself. Mika I challenge you! [:D]

[Leadwieght]

And so it begins...

Thanks Mika, for the information. Is one of the advantages of a ladder system (vs. a traditional bracketed or tree arrangement) that you can start the tournament without having a minimum number of committed players to fill out your initial brackets?

BTW, I suggest that we start a tournament thread on the main SC3 level of the forum (one level up from this one). It will be more visible and possibly get more takers.

[Leadwieght]

Also meant to say that my own personal preference is not to have bids. I know mirror matches are slower, but IMO they really are the better way to get true comparisons of two players' abilities.

[LLv34Mika]

Yep, one of the advantages is that you can always join that ladder system. In our tennis club it worked like that: you can challenge ANY player except the ones of the upper half (or third or quater... whatever you want). If you win that is your first starting position. If you lose... well... last place

So iirc we have three options concerning challenges

1. mirror games
2. bidding system
3. challenger picks side

1 is pretty slow, 2 makes the results uncompareable and 3 is an advantage for the axis player (I think... I alrady said that I'm weak on both sides)

The only bigger problem I have with version 1 (besides the fact that it is slower) is that I just play two games and already have problems to remember what I did and even more important what my opponent did. I just mix up where to search for subs, what to build, what to research, etc.

My favourite is still no 3. Yep, it is an advantage but at least that means that the players are eager to challenge.

[crispy131313]

I think the system is a good idea but I think it would take a very long time to move up the pyramid given how long games take. If I could make a suggestion I would reserve the longer campaigns for the near top of the pyramid, allowing for quicker challenges at the bottom of the pyramid for those vying for an opportunity to challenge the top players.

I would suggest a pyramid like so:

...........a --------------Champion
.........b...c ------------39' campaign
.......d...e...f ----------40' campaign
.....g...h...i...j --------41' campaign
...k...l...m...n...o ------42' campaign
p....q...r...s...t....u ---43' campaign

Doing so would also eliminate possible cookie cutter strategies, as to climb the pyramid you would have to show your skills in all of the campaigns. Perhaps for the later campaigns (43' for example) an earlier end date may have to be enforced to check for victory conditions so that the Axis losing a war of attrition is not certain.

[KorutZelva]

Where are all of you cowards??? [:D] It's on, start challenging each other!

[Sugar]

Maybe rebalancing the game could help the cause.

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Maybe rebalancing the game could help the cause.

I only played 1 vanilla match vs the AI during BETA so pardon my ignorance, which side is stronger now?

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Maybe rebalancing the game could help the cause.

Shouldn't be a consideration unless people like their win-loss record more than actually playing.

Accessing if one side (and by what magnitude) had the advantage was one of the side-benefit for doing all this. UK got some air planey boost with 1.12 which hopefully should narrow the gap a bit.

[PvtBenjamin]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Maybe rebalancing the game could help the cause.

Agreed. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be that much interest in the PBEM game.

[Sugar]

Accessing if one side (and by what magnitude) had the advantage was one of the side-benefit for doing all this.

Already done, if you take a look at the belonging discussions.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Accessing if one side (and by what magnitude) had the advantage was one of the side-benefit for doing all this.

Already done, if you take a look at the belonging discussions.

Yepp... Allied slanted that is the general consensus but without empirical data to back it (ex: recorded win-loss record taking into account player skill level). With the recent change we don't have much info in how the new sub rule and additional UK ressource impacts this. You know data collection, experimental design, science etc. [;)]

[PvtBenjamin]

very interesting

[Sugar]

Empirical data? Here are some: Sugar 55 : Rest of the world 0. Took over 15 months to play it out, 38 of the victories were on Axis side. I played mirror-games with the best of the rest (Gronivaure p.e.) and won them all, more easily on Axis` side.

Sadly many very good players refuse to PbEM any longer, because of the unbalancing. A tournament means to find out the best players, but only if the chances are fair, otherwise it`s still a guessing.

If the best players determine the balancing to be fair, I`d believe them, as I did in Breakthrough SoE or AoD.

Obviously I'm the best player still active. Believe me, or prove me wrong with those Allies.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Empirical data? Here are some: Sugar 55 : Rest of the world 0. Took over 15 months to play it out, 38 of the victories were on Axis side. I played mirror-games with the best of the rest (Gronivaure p.e.) and won them all, more easily on Axis` side.

Sadly many very good players refuse to PbEM any longer, because of the unbalancing. A tournament means to find out the best players, but only if the chances are fair, otherwise it`s still a guessing.

If the best players determine the balancing to be fair, I`d believe them, as I did in Breakthrough SoE or AoD.

Obviously I'm the best player still active. Believe me, or prove me wrong with those Allies.

Those stats means diddly dick if we don't know what patch and the level of player at play (aka tons of wins as allies vs scrubs wouldn't mean the game is balanced). Also means most those games are irrelevant because they are too dated since there were conducted under an obsolete version of the game.

I'm not sure what's to prove in regards to the Axis slant? This has been my impression also. The jury is still out on how much is required to balance the two sides. Hubert and Bill are thinking the equilibrium is closer than the forum consensus as the boost to the allies have been quite modest (even tossing the axis a bone with the ASW fix). They probably have some win-loss stats from pbem servers to support their assumption. I wouldn't be surprised that at lower rung player find it easier to win as allies and between experienced player its easier to win as axis. That's the type of hypothesis a little tourney would help confirm or infirm.

As for being the best player active, you'd have to face me in the tourney. hahahaha! C'mon sugar, I'm waiting on the first level of the pyramid. Win one match to earn the rights to face me. [:D]

[Sugar]

They probably have some win-loss stats from pbem servers to support their assumption.

No, they don`t, the result is completely random. I complained several times, but the issue is still not fixed.

I refuse to take part in this tournament at this stage (I simply don`t like playing the Allies, mostly because of the naval combat and micromanaging their fleet), at least there are only 2 players participating.

Prove me wrong, or leave it.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: Sugar

They probably have some win-loss stats from pbem servers to support their assumption.

No, they don`t, the result is completely random. I complained several times, but the issue is still not fixed.

I refuse to take part in this tournament at this stage (I simply don`t like playing the Allies, mostly because of the naval combat and micromanaging their fleet), at least there are only 2 players participating.

Prove me wrong, or leave it.

I can say with certainty that any point you were trying to make was completely lost in translation. [&:]

[Sugar]

The results shown in the challenge log aren`t related to those on the battleground, especially if your opponent is giving up, but even after achieving a DV the notification could be wrong.

Prove me wrong, or leave it.

[BPINisBACK]

I can join the Tournament. No matter with side.
But let me focus on the game. All the stuff around the tournament must be manage by my opponent.
If anyone wants to play, i'm on.

[BPINisBACK]

Sugar is going on the way to get his 56 victory. He has challenged me!
I never play this vanilla version... I fact i think the last one i played was... 1.09??
But, it will be fun anyway!
Letsss go!