Re-coloring the TOAW IV Counters

[76mm]

Yes, please make it a sticky. This looks a bit fiddly, but doable. Thanks for the detailed explanation.

[Shadrach]

Why on earth would they make the colours in decimal value instead of hex RxGxBx values? Or decimal "R,G,B" syntax. Hex values are pretty standard to assign colors these days, and you can use sites like this to make the process easier:
http://www.color-hex.com/

But those values are a very non-standard way of doing things...

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

Why on earth would they make the colours in decimal value instead of hex RxGxBx values? Or decimal "R,G,B" syntax. Hex values are pretty standard to assign colors these days, and you can use sites like this to make the process easier:
http://www.color-hex.com/

But those values are a very non-standard way of doing things...

I don't know - maybe it was easier to program and Ralph didn't know that hexadecimal would have been better. Regardless, that's how it is, and it's too late to fix now, since plenty of scenarios are already out there using the decimal values. As I've shown, the conversion process is trivial.

[sPzAbt653]

As I've shown, the conversion process is trivial.

For one scenario with only two colors, maybe. I have to have nine different programs open to get it done.
This new process may have been a nice option to have for some cases, but the way we have done it for 20 years was easier and more versatile. And I am not just casting stones, I am stating the truth and will not rest on the matter. [;)]

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

As I've shown, the conversion process is trivial.

For one scenario with only two colors, maybe. I have to have nine different programs open to get it done.

Huh? The only program required to convert from hexadecimal to decimal is the Windows Calculator. Trivial, period.

This new process may have been a nice option to have for some cases, but the way we have done it for 20 years was easier and more versatile. And I am not just casting stones, I am stating the truth and will not rest on the matter. [;)]

No. It was not easier to re-color the counters, if you wanted to do it right - as I made clear in post #18. It's easier now, and the results come out perfect.

And you are fudging the truth, big time, all over this board. Even modifying the icons the way you want is still doable now - with a little technique, as I've repeatedly explained to you.

[sPzAbt653]

The only program required to convert from hexadecimal to decimal is the Windows Calculator.

I'm not talking about the one process of conversion from Hex to Dec, a bunch of other programs are required to convert our original counter sheet colors to the new ones. [And if you ask, I will be attempting to convert the Russian Campaign scenario soon, and will post about the non-trivial process that is required].

And you are fudging the truth, big time, all over this board.

I am not fudging anything, I am being honest in the processes involved and in the restrictions that are now imposed. I am all over the board only in response to others, I have not started anything on my own. Everyone has the right to know what has happened, especially when they ask or comment about it.

[BigDuke66]

Now, how do I now what color set the designer had in mind for what formation?
I got a scenario here with 110 counter files but how do I know which one was used for which formation?

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Now, how do I now what color set the designer had in mind for what formation?
I got a scenario here with 110 counter files but how do I know which one was used for which formation?

Put the scenario in the Scenario Editor and look at the Force Editor. The originals will be displayed next to the counter as always. Original button on the left. New colors on the counter on the right. Which is a fairly strong case for not making the buttons the new color I guess.

[BigDuke66]

I don't see that difference, the counter graphic on the right and the small depiction on the left are the same in the scenario I use(Operation Neva).
Even if I see a difference is of no help because I need to know what color ID uses what graphic file. How else should I find the graphic file the formation is supposed to use?
In your example, which of these graphic files does the formation use?
units_1_012_0.png
units_1_012_1.png
units_1_012_2.png
units_1_012_3.png
units_1_012_4.png
units_1_013_0.png
units_1_013_1.png
units_1_013_2.png
units_1_013_3.png
units_1_013_4.png
units_1_014_0.png
units_1_014_1.png
units_1_014_2.png
units_1_014_3.png
units_1_014_4.png
units_1_015_0.png
units_1_015_1.png
units_1_015_2.png
units_1_015_3.png
units_1_015_4.png
units_1_016_0.png
units_1_016_1.png
units_1_016_2.png
units_1_016_3.png
units_1_016_4.png
units_1_017_0.png
units_1_017_1.png
units_1_017_2.png
units_1_017_3.png
units_1_017_4.png
units_1_018_0.png
units_1_018_1.png
units_1_018_2.png
units_1_018_3.png
units_1_018_4.png
units_1_019_0.png
units_1_019_1.png
units_1_019_2.png
units_1_019_3.png
units_1_019_4.png
units_1_020_0.png
units_1_020_1.png
units_1_020_2.png
units_1_020_3.png
units_1_020_4.png
units_1_021_0.png
units_1_021_1.png
units_1_021_2.png
units_1_021_3.png
units_1_021_4.png
units_1_022_0.png
units_1_022_1.png
units_1_022_2.png
units_1_022_3.png
units_1_022_4.png
units_1_blue_0.png
units_1_blue_1.png
units_1_blue_2.png
units_1_blue_3.png
units_1_blue_4.png
units_1_bluelt_0.png
units_1_bluelt_1.png
units_1_bluelt_2.png
units_1_bluelt_3.png
units_1_bluelt_4.png
units_1_brown_0.png
units_1_brown_1.png
units_1_brown_2.png
units_1_brown_3.png
units_1_brown_4.png
units_1_gray_0.png
units_1_gray_1.png
units_1_gray_2.png
units_1_gray_3.png
units_1_gray_4.png
units_1_green_0.png
units_1_green_1.png
units_1_green_2.png
units_1_green_3.png
units_1_green_4.png
units_1_greendk_0.png
units_1_greendk_1.png
units_1_greendk_2.png
units_1_greendk_3.png
units_1_greendk_4.png
units_1_greenlt_0.png
units_1_greenlt_1.png
units_1_greenlt_2.png
units_1_greenlt_3.png
units_1_greenlt_4.png
units_1_red_0.png
units_1_red_1.png
units_1_red_2.png
units_1_red_3.png
units_1_red_4.png
units_1_tan_0.png
units_1_tan_1.png
units_1_tan_2.png
units_1_tan_3.png
units_1_tan_4.png
units_1_white_0.png
units_1_white_1.png
units_1_white_2.png
units_1_white_3.png
units_1_white_4.png
units_1_yellow_0.png
units_1_yellow_1.png
units_1_yellow_2.png
units_1_yellow_3.png
units_1_yellow_4.png

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

I don't see that difference, the counter graphic on the right and the small depiction on the left are the same in the scenario I use(Operation Neva).
Even if I see a difference is of no help because I need to know what color ID uses what graphic file. How else should I find the graphic file the formation is supposed to use?

Those files aren't used in TOAW IV (aren't even included). See post #3 for how the ID values correspond to the color sets.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

I don't see that difference, the counter graphic on the right and the small depiction on the left are the same in the scenario I use(Operation Neva).
Even if I see a difference is of no help because I need to know what color ID uses what graphic file. How else should I find the graphic file the formation is supposed to use?
In your example, which of these graphic files does the formation use?
units_1_012_0.png
...
units_1_yellow_4.png

The answer would be none of course. You need to read up on how to recolor the counters and the different way they are represented. The new way is more streamlined as far as coloring but the counter sheet, the one that has the different icons, is less friendly to being modded. So there's some good and there's some bad. I'm not the brightest crayon in the box but it took me about two minutes to understand how to color these things.

[BigDuke66]

@Curtis Lemay
But these counter files were used in TOAWIII, the ID values do not help at all if I don't know what files originally corresponded to which color ID.

@Lobster
Again it's not about the process of recoloring, that one is clear, It's about finding out which color the designer intended to be used for a specific formation, and that can only be done if I know what graphic file was used for the formation specific color ID. If I don't know that I can't even start the process of recoloring.

[Curtis Lemay]

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

@Curtis Lemay
But these counter files were used in TOAWIII, the ID values do not help at all if I don't know what files originally corresponded to which color ID.

@Lobster
Again it's not about the process of recoloring, that one is clear, It's about finding out which color the designer intended to be used for a specific formation, and that can only be done if I know what graphic file was used for the formation specific color ID. If I don't know that I can't even start the process of recoloring.

Then you have to go back to the TOAW III graphics and compare the colors on each of those original files to the colors shown on the shot in post #3. Then you'll know which file corresponds to which ID.

[BigDuke66]

There must be an easier way as it has to be hardcoded what color ID uses what file.
The names I posted are the same names as used in the BMP files that TOAWIII started with before PNGs were supported. All that is stored in a scenario file is the color ID, so what file is used for that color ID must stored somewhere else and I would say it's hardcoded in the EXE file because I've seen no modified graphics that use names different from the originals they replace.
Either Ralph has to help here or maybe some TOAWIII still have that information somewhere stored.

[sPzAbt653]

Duke, see if this doc helps you with whatever you are trying to do. This doc isn't anything official, it is simply something I put together for my own use.

The first column is what I call them, and it corresponds to the color palette we see in the editor.

The second column is what TOAW III calls them. The third column was for the Numbers file but I never completed it as it was too much work.

[BigDuke66]

@sPzAbt653
Thanks, that was a good help.

[cathar1244]

Hi Bob,

Is the ability to change unit counter colors tied to a particular TOAW IV version? I've got the .11 version and went through the procedure you described -- but there is no change. A bit confusing.

Thanks and Cheers

... on edit: had the .col file in the wrong scenario folder. Has to be under graphics override, which makes sense.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

The only program required to convert from hexadecimal to decimal is the Windows Calculator.

I'm not talking about the one process of conversion from Hex to Dec, a bunch of other programs are required to convert our original counter sheet colors to the new ones. [And if you ask, I will be attempting to convert the Russian Campaign scenario soon, and will post about the non-trivial process that is required].

And you are fudging the truth, big time, all over this board.

I am not fudging anything, I am being honest in the processes involved and in the restrictions that are now imposed. I am all over the board only in response to others, I have not started anything on my own. Everyone has the right to know what has happened, especially when they ask or comment about it.

I'm in favor of nipping this problem off in the bud. The solution to this problem is obvious: fix the program so that the scenario designers don't have to jump through all these hoops. Make it as easy as possible for the user. Make the computer do as much of the work as possible. Yes, a lot of the legacy scenarios are going to need adjustments but I would hazzard the guess that it would be less than perhaps 50 such scenarios and I suggest that's not too many to be a game stopper in this reguard. The idea is to boldly step into the 21st century when possible and it's innovations like this that makes TOAW even greater as time passes. The Equipment editor is another great leap forward. Don't be afraid of progress. I agree with Steve....make designing scenarios as easy as possible. I'm afraid that you might regret it if you don't. Reading through this thread I've counted the things that need to change to make it easier for scenario designers and they are several. I'm just telling you how I really feel about it. This dragging of the feet at every needed change is holding up a much greater product.

[sPzAbt653]

Well put Larry. We in the community are sadly in a battle with developers. TOAW IV was three steps forward and two steps back, and there is currently no reason to think that TOAW V will be any different.

If we are silent, we won't be heard.

[Lobster]

Anything that allows more flexibility in scenario design can't be bad.