Typhoon of Steel: John 3rd vs. Kitakami

[John 3rd]

HR are sent so that is done.

Have sent the most recent BTS Folder to Jorge for install. Good.

Just sent a screenshot of my Start Page to make sure we have the same install running.

Michael and I will install Tracker this weekend. I ran all of Dan's game without it and will not do that this game.

If we are OK, I shall begin Turn ONE work this weekend.

[John 3rd]

For me, Turn ONE is more about getting things moving rather then attacking and invading everywhere. One factor I love in the Opening two months is running the existing fights, having the next wave of invasions/attacks in-bound, with the wave after loading, and planning for the landing AFTER THAT planned attack. Things can be so dynamic during this time. Really keeps one on their toes.

Since I plan to be in Ceylon and India by March 1, 1942 all moves are geared towards that time.

Regional Objectives
1. NORPAC--Everything west of Kodiak.
2. CENPAC--Midway and Wake.
3. SEPAC--Tabiteau, Baker, Canton
4. SOPAC--Luganville and New Caledonia
5. Australia--The NW Coast of Kangarooland
6. Burma--Will slowly move into it and HOPE to trap units there when we hit India.
7. India--All India from Viza and Cocanada EAST.

This is not ambitious at all---RIGHT??!! [:D]

[ny59giants]

I KNOW you hate land combat and China, but what are your plans here?? You cannot leave then alone like you did vs Dan. [:-]

[John 3rd]

See---without thinking about CHINA---I didn't think about China.

We shall attack. Then ATTACK. THEN ATTACK! I shall not allow China to become a weapon I have to look over my shoulder at from 1943 on.

Plan to truly train my pilots over there by keeping units active there. Won't buy out as many ground units either...

[John 3rd]

That sort of observation shall bring about a 'lessons learned from Dan's game' section of this AAR.

1. Don't Avoid China.

[Lowpe]

China?

I know it goes against conventional wisdom, but Japan saved tons of supplies by not aggressively pursuing China. He made it to mid 45...

I am not sure that he did bad there. Very hard to quantify...

[Bif1961]

Of the HRs I would modify 10 as the Americans planned to Bomb Formosa but the weather was bad so they didn't. So it wasn't a matter of they wouldn't do it but the weather prevented it. I would allow the forces in PI to conduct port attacks.

[John 3rd]

I agree Lowpe. My intention is to launch an assault into China from the South with the intention of severing it from India. We'll take the industrial heartland as well and then see what we're at.

Jorge is perusing the the game files and found Queen Elizabeth STARTING the war in mid-1943 mode. Ooops. Fixed that!

Will work Turn One tomorrow night.

[crsutton]

John,

I was not sure but did a simple google search. There are tons of photos of Hellcats operating off of CVEs as well as Corsairs. Landing and take off. If I were the Allied player, I think I would object to a HR limiting them to just FM Wildcats. However, there might be a date when they are allowed. I don't know if all CVEs had catapults but those that did seemed to have had no problems with these aircraft. Also a photo or two of Helldivers on CVEs but that does not look like a common practice.

[John 3rd]

Kitakami came up with the thoughts. I am pretty sure that F6F flew off CVEs as well. Put that over on his thread. It doesn't impact 1941 so we can straighten this out as we move forward.

[Falken]

crsutton,

Hi, since Kitakami and I use the same rule in our game, are you just objecting to the Allies side of rule #6, or are u also saying it doesn't apply to the IJN side as well. I have always thought that the A7M2 or B7A2/3s were too big for IJN CVE? Have I had that wrong since the beginning?

Dave..

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Falken

crsutton,

Hi, since Kitakami and I use the same rule in our game, are you just objecting to the Allies side of rule #6, or are u also saying it doesn't apply to the IJN side as well. I have always thought that the A7M2 or B7A2/3s were too big for IJN CVE? Have I had that wrong since the beginning?

Dave..

Well, if the idea is to be a bit historical then restricting Japanese aircraft would be the ideal. However, this is a massive fantasy mod and it might be best to just to junk that rule altogether. Frankly as an AFB, I do not think it alters the game or benefits either side one way or another. My choice is to go with as few HRs as possible because they tend to cause more problems than they stop. All in all, this rule set seems fine to me.

[John 3rd]

December 7, 1941

OK. It has been a LONG TIME since I have planned out a December 7th Open. Here is the plan in detail:

CARDIV1
Akagi, Amagi, CVL Ryukaku carry 66 Zero, 54 Val, 69 Kate, and 6 Recon Kate. They are escorted by BC Ishitaka (Amagi-Class), 2 CA, 1 CL, 1 CS, and 7 DD.

CARDIV5
Shokaku, Zuikaku, CVL Karasu carry 66 Zero, 48 Val, 63 Kate, and 6 Recon Kate. They are escorted by CB Fuji and Kita, 2 CA, and 7 DD.

Pearl Harbor Strike:
All Zero on escort. No strafing.
CARDIV1 Vals on Port Strike and CARDIV5 Vals on AF Attack
All Kates on Port Strike

The TF shall strike from the east and then stick around for a 2nd day to do nothing but SWEEP PH and kill American Fighters. The KB will then move ENE to refuel from its AOs.

[Falken]

Hey John...

You guys doing 2 day turns or 1 day turns? Thought for sure Kitakami would go for 2-day turns, but your note about sweeping on the second day means you might have changed his mind on that.....

Dave...

[John 3rd]

One day turns. Would, EVER contemplate a two day turn. Am too much of a control freak for that! [:'(]

At least I can admit that...

[FlyByKnight]

Gonna send the KB on a raid along the Southern coast of Australia again?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

One day turns. Would, EVER contemplate a two day turn. Am too much of a control freak for that! [:'(]

At least I can admit that...

It definitely messes with combined naval/air tactics. I would not like 2 day turns.

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

China?

I know it goes against conventional wisdom, but Japan saved tons of supplies by not aggressively pursuing China. He made it to mid 45...

I am not sure that he did bad there. Very hard to quantify...

The way you're thinking of doing China is exactly what I'd do. Come around the bottom and up after letting him think you want to push through the middle and North. You need free troops though, but in this mod I guess you have them.

About India. It's very easy for the Allies to save India by holing up in Bombay and Karachi. You'd have to essentially keep the KB forever patrolling near Karachi to keep troops out, and you can't keep the ones that arrive there from coming.

So ... why not take it first and work your way back?

[John 3rd]

There are not many added IJA troops within these Mods. The only true difference that has been made is the completion of the Japanese shift from four regiment IDs to three regiment IDs. The Triangular shift is in Leland Ness's Rikugun books and so I went through and completed it. Since these are NAVAL Mods I simply took those extra regiments from nine ID (dropping combat strength correspondingly) and creating three fresh units of decent experience. One starts in China, one in Manchuria, and one is assigned to Southern Army.

For Michael and I this is a major change BUT it does not add combat power to the army just brings little more flexibility in having three more division-sized units.

[John 3rd]

KB-3 will strike Manila. The Japanese do not know about Adm Hart's decision to move part of the Asiatic Fleet to Cebu so we strike Manila.

KB-3 is comprised of CARDIV2--Hiryu, Soryu, CAVs Takachi and Kushiro, a CB, 2 CS (Chiyoda and Chitose), and 6 DDs. Aircraft complement is 78 Zero, 48 Val, 60 Kate, and 6 Recon Kate.

[John 3rd]

Note of new or unknown vessels:

BC Ishitaka is Amagi-Class (5x2 16") and allowed under the changes of the Washington Treaty.

CB Fuji-Class are designed as Cruiser-Killers and begin to be built when the Japanese leave the Treaty System. They mount 2x2 16" guns (taken off of the converted Akagi/Amagi) and three are built with three more building.

CVL Ryukaku-Class--Tonnages are slightly raised for CVs so the Japanese build two CVL that become their proto-CVL class design. Lessons are learned from the failed Ryujo so their is just one hangar deck.

CAV Here is the G.6 class of two ships. The Tokachi and Kushiro carry 3x2 8" Guns and 30 planes. They are allowed in the London Treaty. They are Hybrid ships with very limited ammo and just a few sorties.


Any ship class mentioned here as a Treaty change means that the Allies benefited MORE in the Treaty modifications. The ratio is 10:7 so the Americans AND Brits gain more then the Japanese. You can ask Jorge for specifics. If he doesn't know or answer, I'll happily show...