More Adventures In Italy With Ian

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: hingram
Playing the computer, I got so frustrated with supply in Southern Italy that I invaded all up the west coast. I hit every port. There was no major Axis units between Reggio and the port south of Salerno. Salerno was almost a bridge too far when my Para's got surrounded. My invasion force couldn't get to them. When Anzio opened up, I dropped a para scout and found a port with just a Security guard and invaded with the Moroccans and Canadians fresh from taking Sardinia and Corsica. Taking Anzio made the Salerno Axis force back off.

Great playback hingram dude. Sounds like it would make a good AAR. I read through it twice to make sure I understood what's going on and I notice that you dropped a para scout for recon purposes and I'm wondering if you would have gotten the same recon info from doing an airstrike probe on the hex(es) that were affected to get a list of the equipment in the hex, from which you can estimate the size of the unit(s) in the hex.

I think I may have found an open port just south of Salerno in my game with Brian and I'm dying to find out whether or not it's empty by sailing a unit up there and trying to land. There's no airfields there but there is alledgedly a supply point there so it might just be doable. I'd have to keep shipping fresh divisins up there to keep the survivors from being swampped by counter-attacks. Brian is bound to want to rail in more and more troops and he still has his Italian troops. I'm going over the pros and cons still. Thanks for your report by the way. I like to hear your stories.

[hingram]

You can drop a para anywhere. The reason I dropped a para is that I wanted to know what was there and it gives me the option to drop more to hold off any reinforcements. There was one added benefit. When I airdropped the Brits at Salerno, the stout force there went after the paras, that opened the port a bit more. But I took a real shellacking until I showed up in Anzio. The Axis have a lot of forces in a concentrated area.

My goal was to take Taranto early with the Americans and start repairing the train line to Foggia. Then head west with the two or three divisions, repairing train lines as I go to keep supply going. But the repairs took too long and I ended up in Anzio before I could start going west. I wanted the American group to hit the Axis from behind. I dedicated every rail repair unit to the east because I didn't need them yet in the west since I landed at a supply area. If you do that, don't send the Brit engineers on the rail north from Taranto. Send them from the other direction by going around the mountains so they meet the other rail units in the middle. For some reason, they are effective but move slowly. Then you can rail everyone out

Hitting the eastern side (Taranto and the other port) gets you closer to Rome but less chance of getting hemmed in because they are probably more lightly defended. I used the Americans. Taking Corsica and Sardinia with the Canadians and any blue units was done to help Interdiction. They became aircraft carriers for me. Some Italians magically appeared on the islands when I took the objectives.

The destroyed rails make invasions more tempting which I don't think was the intention of the designer.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: hingram
You can drop a para anywhere. The reason I dropped a para is that I wanted to know what was there and it gives me the option to drop more to hold off any reinforcements. There was one added benefit. When I airdropped the Brits at Salerno, the stout force there went after the paras, that opened the port a bit more. But I took a real shellacking until I showed up in Anzio. The Axis have a lot of forces in a concentrated area.

My goal was to take Taranto early with the Americans and start repairing the train line to Foggia. Then head west with the two or three divisions, repairing train lines as I go to keep supply going. But the repairs took too long and I ended up in Anzio before I could start going west. I wanted the American group to hit the Axis from behind. I dedicated every rail repair unit to the east because I didn't need them yet in the west since I landed at a supply area. If you do that, don't send the Brit engineers on the rail north from Taranto. Send them from the other direction by going around the mountains so they meet the other rail units in the middle. For some reason, they are effective but move slowly. Then you can rail everyone out

Hitting the eastern side (Taranto and the other port) gets you closer to Rome but less chance of getting hemmed in because they are probably more lightly defended. I used the Americans. Taking Corsica and Sardinia with the Canadians and any blue units was done to help Interdiction. They became aircraft carriers for me. Some Italians magically appeared on the islands when I took the objectives.

The destroyed rails make invasions more tempting which I don't think was the intention of the designer.

Thanks for your reports hingram dude. It helps me to decide what to do in my game hearing about your adventures. I landed at an open port near Salerno and was immediately surrounded by Panzers. D'oh.

[hingram]

Luckily, you can get yourself out of trouble as quickly as you got in it. I flew the Brits into an airfield and the next turn found me in the cross-hairs of a mechanized division so I flew right back out. Although not realistic, it is a way to "fake" an invasion to force the opponent to react. You are going to lose the British paras early anyway. I had the 82nd take Foggia to deny the Axis of the airfields and drop some bridges bringing supplies.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: hingram
Luckily, you can get yourself out of trouble as quickly as you got in it. I flew the Brits into an airfield and the next turn found me in the cross-hairs of a mechanized division so I flew right back out. Although not realistic, it is a way to "fake" an invasion to force the opponent to react. You are going to lose the British paras early anyway. I had the 82nd take Foggia to deny the Axis of the airfields and drop some bridges bringing supplies.

Playing you must be a blast....you're so innovative and aggressive your opponent likely never knows what you're going to do next. I'd like to see an AAR between you and Ian so you can teach us how to do it the hingram way. See how I volunteered Ian?

I've gotten ashore in my game with Brian::

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So now I need to fight off the Germans around Taranto and expand the bridghead and I was thinking of driving on Foggia so as to get rid of the entire Luftwaffe....I think that's what happens when the Allies capture Foggia. But after that I'd like to shift the action back to the west coast of Italy and see about maybe doing Rome or at least Salerno.

Which reminds me...I'm looking hard at the ports right across the channel where I can have ship support, arty support from the east coast of Sicily...long-range arty, and it's a short trip, not that I've had any Sea INT problems at all. I don't think Brian has any Sea INT missions set. I know I don't. They would be just an early warning that something is sailing...wouldn't even scratch the paint so I don't even attempt it. The Allies don't have any really fine anti-ship aircraft whereas the Germans have their spectacular Stuka. Although those are fragile and need some fighter support if you're flying into the face of any significant enemy fighter CAP.

Which reminds me...I haven't done any airfield strikes yet and I'm wondering if I should. I can afford the losses a lot easier than Brian can, there's only a few Axis aircraft so losing some would hit his force harder than it would affect mine. Over the long run, if done properly, never losing AS superiority of course, it's possible to extinguish the Luftwaffe but it would cost a lot and could damage the Allied force heavily. Maybe I should just take Foggia and forget about all the airfield strikes entirely. That sounds about right.

[larryfulkerson]

The new game has started and Ian is off to a good start, evaporating a lot of my
units where they stood. This is what the Axis player sees before anybody has
moved. This is the version that has ships for the Allies and that means I'll need
to re-deploy all the planes I have near a coastline to further inland. I'm thinking
of evacuating all the aircraft to Rome or somewhere up north to save them for the
end game period when they are really really going to be needed.

I'm thinking of trying to flood the landing zones to see if I can take one or more supply
points from the Allies. Just something to stall the take-over a little longer. Lots
of my units are in reorg and those I'll just set to three-dots and dig them in if I can.
The rest of the troops in the east will stream to Messina to build a good MLR and the troops
in the west will head to the American landing zone.

[larryfulkerson]

Hey you guys....Ian reports some suspecisious behavior from the server. Ian reports that he doesn't remember doing any first turn moves for this game and when I loaded the game it acted like Elmer was moving the units so we're wondering if I set up the challenge wrong and should we re-do the challenge and start over.

[larryfulkerson]

I got only a single round of combat and only remembered to get a screenshot at this
point: filling in the Diplomatic Pouch, which I have moved to the bottom of the screen.
This is what it looks like when the Axis units attack the American units while they
are few and scattered and can't support each other properly. Maybe I can drive them
back into the water.

[larryfulkerson]

Now I've got two identical games going and I've got to be careful about which game
I'm starting when I choose one because I'm using two different game engines for the
two different games. Ian and I are using 4.0.1.23 and Brian and I are using an
experimental beta version, to test it, for the beta testing team. I suspect there
will be no difference in the game mechanics "under the hood" and therefore no
difference in gameplay between the two games. In other words, I think it's fair
to use a different game engine for both. I suspect you wouldn't be able to tell
the difference between them in terms of battle results, etc. If you still have
heartburn after hearing this just PM me and I'll ignore it for you.

[larryfulkerson]

I just got an email from the system that our game has been "cancelled". So I guess we're starting over.

EDIT: I created a new challenge and put a password on it just in case we're restarting.

[devoncop]

7th July 1943

After a couple of technical glitches we are underway in our rematch !

As the Allies I am very much out of my comfort zone as a naturally defensive minded player. That won't cut the mustard in this scenario though as even Larry, a naturally aggressive player found he ran out of time to capture Brenner Pass in the last game so I need to up my game.

Having said all that a couple of practice starts v Elmer of the first couple of turns has convinced me there needs to be at least some care taken from the off as the HG Panzer Division is more than capable of causing the US 45th Division in particular in the Eastern sector some serious problems. I cannot allow it to be cut off from the rest of the American forces and the British who have landed in the SE at Syracuse.

As a result I decide that the first priority is to establish a defendable perimeter aside from some skirmishing be the 45th Division against Italian Coastal Div Infantry west of Licata.

In the South East I can be more aggressive and the Canadian 1st Division and British 50th Division, with air support repeatedly hit the 206th Coastal Division east of Ragusa. This formation was a threat due to decent artillery assets so naval support was also used and the Division suffered very heavy casualties and is pretty much cut off.

The British 51st Division has been kept out of the fighting and will be able to strike out north now the 206th has been dislodged.

As far as air assets are concerned aside from an abortive attempt to bomb some spotted elements of the HG Division (which turned out to have a lot of AA resilience) and a couple of successful airfield attacks which evaporated some Italian and German ME109's and Gustavs the focus is on building up proficiency and harassing Axis troop movements.

With some trepidation I await the German response to the landings....

[MikeJ19]

Ian and Larry,

This is going to be interesting. It is neat playing the other side in a game - you have insights into the challenges facing your opponent, which maybe you can exploit.

I'm along for a fun ride.

[devoncop]

Thanks Mike.

You are right about knowing the challenges the other side faces. However its only when playing the other side you get to see their limitations too

[devoncop]

13th July 1943

The perimeter, as expected in the US sector is assaulted by the HG Division and the strong KG Hudel. the Recon battalion of the 34th US Divn is pushed back and the airfield north of the US landing site is threatened but the line holds and more armour and infantry has now arrived.

I noticed that the Axis airforce as a man appears to have surprisingly abandoned Sicily completely for points north and so my interdiction went unopposed.

The surrounded 206th Italian Coastal Division was destroyed in totality SE of Ragusa and British armour pushes up close to Augusta on the East coast.

I did everything I could to drop the rail bridge at Primasole Bridge where British Paras have dropped but it stayed stubbornly intact though the rail line on the northern coast has been cut.

Overall I would say the first couple of turns are steady rather than spectacular and Larry has evidently decided on a forward defence a la Rommel with his German troops on the island but Goering's airforce appears to not have "got with the programme"[:)]

[larryfulkerson]

This is what it looked like at the end of the playback. More Italian troops are
approaching the American positions from the west and it looks like we're in for
some drama.

[devoncop]

13th July 1943

The Germans launch desperate counter attacks at the advance elements of 1st US Armoured Division in the West and the Reggio Battalion of the 15th Panzer Gren Division hurls its Tiger's at the 70th Tank Battalion's M5's. The end result is the destruction of 4 out of its 14 Tigers and 8 of its 13 PAK 40's for the loss of 7 US M5's and some supporting infantry.

What is interesting about this encounter is that it confirms my thoughts that rather than immediately evacuating the 15th Panzer Grenadier Division as I did to the East of the island Larry is making full use of them and slowing considerably the path of US troops . My aim now is to try and ensure this powerful Division doesn't make it off the island.

If that particular duel was a success for the Allies the British 50th and 51st Divisions continue to find progress slow up the East coast and have yet to reach Augusta though it's garrison is now being shelled.

[MikeJ19]

Ian and Larry,

Do you know if there is any fog of war in the combat results? For example, Ian you record the destruction of 4 Tigers. Is this accurate or does Larry see a different number?

Have a good day

[devoncop]

Hi Mike

I believe there is a margin of error in reports but my guys never lie [:)]

[larryfulkerson]

Here' what it lookoed like just before I ended the turn. The Allies are making
progress against the Axis troops. Thair airpower is their advantage in this conflict.

[devoncop]

17th July 1943

After a serious talking to (and a nice cup of tea) Montgomery finally gets the British moving along the east coast, overrunning the 54th Napoli Division Artillery in Vizzini and forcing through to Augusta which should fall next turn,though the abortive drop by 1st british Armoured at Primasole Bridge is a disaster as all are lost. German FJ units have now been spotted arriving south from Messina so the "forward defence" by Larry continues.

There are more determined counter attacks by 15th Panzer Gren supported by Italian coastal Division assets in the west against the US 2nd Armoured and 3rd US Infantry Divisions and the situation is only kept stable by artillery naval and air support. It is decided given the strength of the German attacks in this sector the reserve 1st canadian Division will be sent to support the Americans.

In more positive news the encirclement of the Herman Goering Divn south of Piazza Amerina is completed and KG Hudel loses 9 of its 18 remaining Tiger I's in clashes with US 2nd Armoured Divn.