Do you think this is fun?

[fuselex]

And Generalissimo.
What can we say for your contribution [:D]

[rico21]

[:)]

[Gerry4321]

Wondering how much change has been to AI firing? In the change log it says a minor adjustment I think.

When I played the AI sometimes wouldn't even fire in the defensive fire segment. It made no sense as there are no snipers to activate. Thanks.

[UP844]

Two examples of AI aloofness I experienced while playing an old classic (Defending at Meximieux) after Update 5.

Case #1

Three GE 1st Line squads Assault moved in a woods hex adjacent to the US 2nd Line squad with the DC.

The squad never fired in the German Movement Segment. OK, there may be other German units moving later.

Now, however, it is the American Defensive Fire Segment:
- no other Germans can appear;
- there are no other possible targets in any hex where the US squad can fire (highlighted);
- the squad has a significant chance to hurt the Germans (10 FP @ +1 require a "8-" DR for a PTC = 72.2%)

two last points that I doubt the AI can "think" about:
- an unharmed German can first fire 6 FP @ 0, requiring a "8-" for a PTC = 72.2%, with greater chances of success than the possible US fire, since the US squad has a morale level of 6.
- the German can enter CC with a 3:1 numerical advantage and a -1 leadership DRM.

The American squad did not fire. The German squads fired, pinned the squad, entered CC and killed it.

Case #2

The German B** leader and a squad moved adjacent to an US HS armed with a bazooka (I had to move the German Gw III/IV on the left, so I took the risk: after all, if the HS fired at the squad, it would not fire at the AFV).

Even in this case, the HS didn't fire in the German Movement Segment (it would have fired with 4FP @ -1, not a bad shot in my opinion), but I can understand this: after all, I didn't move the AFV because it could have taken a BAZ shot at 3 hexes.

In the American defensive fire, with no one else to fire at, the HS didn't fire anyway. It was broken by German fire (7 FP @ -1) in the Advancing Fire Segment.

P.S. I know I am a royal pain, but I really love this game.

[Big Ivan]

I never thought of you as a "royal pain" UP844, just committed to make this game better!

In fact your comments and observations about this game are nothing short of outstanding!![&o]

Yes I can see you do love this game and that dedication helps all of us players out.



Big Ivan[;)]

[Gerry4321]

Thanks for noting these examples.

I think this could be one of the easiest fixes to the AI - have it fire all units in the Defensive Fire Segment. If you want to be cautious you could set it up so it does not fire MGs as they can break.

[Peter Fisla]

UP844, do you have a saved game I can take a look?

[UP844]

Peter, unfortunately I do not have a saved game. I would have to save the game at the start of the German Movement Segment, but I has no way to anticipate the need to save it. A (optional) auto-save feature would be helpful for debugging: I think having the game saved (overwriting the previous auto-save file) at the start of every player segment that is followed by an AI segment should be enough to shed some light on most AI-related bugs.

I will try to reproduce the situation in a purpose-made test scenario.

This is another case, taken from a game of Prokhorovka. The image was taken in the Reinforcement Segment of the German Turn 13 (day), but the advance took place in the Advance Segment of the Russian Turn 12 (night).

The Russian stack was in the Brush hex from which it advanced.

My Pz IV F2 was OOC (and so, it was unable to fire on the Engineers when they arrived in the adjacent hex).

I was accepting the idea to lose a Pz IV in CC without being able to avoid it, when the engineers, instead of entering CC, advanced just in front of the tank. Since it was night, the Engineers could not see the other Pz IV. I don't have the CC table here, but I think they had an excellent chance of killing the tank.

I also thought the AI could have "thought" closing on the VP hexes more important than killing the tank, but the range to the two VP hexes would have been the same.

In the Fire Segment, they were slaughtered by point blank 75mm and MG fire, of course.

[Peter Fisla]

just save before each segment, of course if you remember

[UP844]

My attempt to recreate the failure to AI fire through a test scenario failed miserably: they AI squads fired like demons on the squads assault moving in the adjacent hex [:(]

I set up 12 German squads: each one of them Assault Moved 1 hex and ended adjacent to a 2nd Line US squad that can only fire to the moving squad. I played the test scenario 5 times and - because of C&C - 38 German squads moved adjacent to the US squads.

30 times, the US squads fired twice (First Fire and Final Fire), or went to Final Fire status because of Cowering
8 times, the US squads fired only once (First Fire) because First Fire was enough to break the German squad. They then fired a second time in the Defensive Fire Segment.

Never once an US squad failed to fire [&:][&:][&:].

I'll try saving just before the Movement Segment.

[fuselex]

yes - a royal pain in the butt you are .
But only if you class a royal pain in the butt as someone who points out issues in a game to
improve that game.
As big ivan said your comments and observations are nothing short of outstanding.

And once again as big ivan said

[Gerry4321]

Wondering if the routine to calculate firing in the Movement Segment is also being accidentally used in the Defensive Fire Segment? That would explain it not firing in the latter maybe?

[UP844]

I made another quick test (see image) moving five German squads in different terrains, with TEMs ranging from +3 (stone building, Assault Move) to -2 (Open Ground, non-Assault Movement, a.k.a. suicidal charge).

I carried out a first series of tests (5 games) with 5 US 1st Line squads (FP = 6), then I replaced them with HS (FP = 3). The US units fired 50 times out of 50, firing First Fire and Final Fire (except in Open Ground Terrain, where they could only fire once).

The AI appears to be more than willing to fire in the enemy Movement Segment (as long as the target is within the normal range of the firing units), so I think the occasional failure to fire is due to some glitch: unfortunately, without a save game to analyse, I suspect solving the issue is an impossible task.

I'll start saving before every Movement Segment, in the hope of incurring in some less-than-willing AI units [;)].