Old Customer, New Patch

JeF · Post by **JeF** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 1:41 am

Originally posted by Steven Clarke
Perhaps the title page of the original paper manual can serve as proof of ownership for upgrade purposes. For rational and irrational reasons I would like to keep the original AA disk and game.

For very rational reasons, I won't mutilate my Airborne Assault field manual. Neither the front nor the back page !

This is explicitely banned by the Marcinelles publishing convention protecting books from bad treatments from their "owners".

On the nitpicking side, not everybody had the priviledge to receive a manual. Those with the CDV versions did not.

Cheers,

JeF.

kgsan · Post by **kgsan** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 8:34 pm

Originally posted by Arjuna

"Existing "Airborne Assault: Red Devils over Arnhem" customers will be offered a special Trade-in deal. Details will be provided closer to release date."

We're still working on the details, but it will probably involve sending in your original AA:RD disk and paying a Trade-in fee, which will be significantly less than the full purchase price.

Well, I just want to add my voice to the chorus of appreciation for Panther taking into account existing customers. It seems like a fair deal. I frankly thought providing the free estabs was going a bit overboard. I appreciate gaming value as much as the next person, but I also want quality gaming companies to be able to stay in business, and obviously there has to be sufficient financial reward for them to do so.

I am looking forward to getting the 82nd and 101st, although like some others on this board, I just don't seem to have a dwindling amount of time available for gaming (In large part due to a very busy 1&1/2 year-old boy with a little girl due next month). It's is a pity, because with Panther, Battlefront, and Matrixgames and a few others there seems to be a wealth of quality strategy and military games being put out these days, mostly by small companies utilizing the web.

Regards,
Kevin

Fallschirmjager · Post by **Fallschirmjager** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 3:02 am

Will the new game have everything AA:RA had?

If not then I will simply pay the full fee

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 4:56 am

Yes everything that was in AA will be in HTTR.

David

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 6:17 pm

Hmm I have to respond to those worrying over the "new" game being just the "old" game with some modifications.

I for instance don't have the "old" game.

It would be a "new" game for me the second I bought it.

Now to say another thing. If the "new" game is the "old" game, but with some add ons and revisions, I still call it a valid product.
Because remember some of us don't have the "old" game, hence we would not be suffering much.

Now granted, the people with the "old" game might not get much out of it, but that is something that sometimes can't be helped.

Here I sit wanting ASL Rule Book 2. I already own ASL as a whole. But I have the 1st Edition Manual.
Do I drop 100 bucks on a manual that I already essentially own? Well if I want the new improved clarified updated one , yes I do.

Same thing with Airborne Assault.

If the "old" game sucked, odds are you won't be to interested. If the "old" game was good, odds are the updated version will be better.

In retrospect, I could say that the 2 Expansions to Heroes of Might and Magic 3 and the 2 Expansions to Heroes of Might and Magic 4 were just cosmetic add ons to the base game. But I chose to buy them knowing they would really add to a game I really liked.

Sometimes a re release is ok, sometimes not.

Only the gamer can make that choice.

But if the company stops producing the game, there won't be any new fans after the first run of stock is gone.

Kevinugly · Post by **Kevinugly** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 8:32 pm

Don't get me wrong Les, I have no objection as such for the release of an upgraded and updated version of Airborne Assault. For those who don't have the original product this is obviously good and, from Panther's point of view, the addition of scenarios involving 82nd and 101st Airborne divisions will make the game much more attractive to the lucrative American market. It's just that those of us who have already purchased the original game would have been better served with an expansion pack rather than a 'trade in' deal. If I can use the example of 'Shogun-Total War', when the 'Mongol Invasion' expansion pack was released, a 'Warlord edition' with both titles bundled together was also released. More recently the same was done with 'Battle Realms'.
This, I feel, would have been preferable and I can see no reason why this route is not the one being taken.

My other concern is that, to date, Matrix games do not seem to have a distribution deal in Europe or in the UK (feel free to correct me on that one:) ) . This would then leave us gamers in those regions with the only option of purchasing the full game, with all the extra costs that importing it brings, if we wish to remain part of the AA community!

Maybe I'm playing 'Devils Advocate' to a certain degree but these are concerns that I feel need to be addressed.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 9:43 pm

It might be a cost efficiency issue.

To market an add on requires a cd and packaging.

To market an add on with a base game would be less effort if the add on was part of the new base game.

To market the original game as a separate item, with a second item, the add on, requiring additional packaging, might be undesirable. Yes cds and a simple box don't appear to have much value in and of themself, but that is failing to factor in printer, box maker and cd producer costs.

It might be no more than that (that is all conjecture on my part, but it makes sense).

Matrix is steadily and continually breaking into new markets it would appear.

It might be just a matter of time, before your European source troubles are moot.

What should be remembered, is Matrix has only recently even become connected with this game.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 9:46 pm

Heaven knows, there are a few wondering why Matrix has not released a Mega Campaign compilation 3 cd set for Steel Panthers.

There appears to be at least a few johnny come late types that would even not whine about a redundant MC just so they could get the missing item they don't have.

Sometimes there are hidden details.

Fallschirmjager · Post by **Fallschirmjager** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 11:39 pm

Originally posted by Kevinugly
If I can use the example of 'Shogun-Total War', when the 'Mongol Invasion' expansion pack was released, a 'Warlord edition' with both titles bundled together was also released. More recently the same was done with 'Battle Realms'.
This, I feel, would have been preferable and I can see no reason why this route is not the one being taken.

I hated when they did that...$50 for an expansion pack

I sold the original game off for 30 to make up the difference

I hope they dont do that with the viking expansion pack for the new one

JeF · Post by **JeF** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 12:48 am

Hi all,

Originally posted by Kevinugly

My other concern is that, to date, Matrix games do not seem to have a distribution deal in Europe or in the UK (feel free to correct me on that one:) ) . This would then leave us gamers in those regions with the only option of purchasing the full game, with all the extra costs that importing it brings, if we wish to remain part of the AA community!

Last time I checked, most Matrix Games are distributed by French and UK online distributors store4war and duchet. I don't know about the classic retail shops. At least it was the advantage of CDV.

On a bright note, store4war indicates that the re-issues of some games come with a box and a manual (!).
So all might not be lost after all.

Maybe I'm playing 'Devils Advocate' to a certain degree but these are concerns that I feel need to be addressed.

You're correct Kevin. And maybe the distribution issue deserve it's own thread. I think this one has been hijacked already.

JeF.

Marc von Martial · Post by **Marc von Martial** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 1:20 am

Originally posted by Kevinugly

My other concern is that, to date, Matrix games do not seem to have a distribution deal in Europe or in the UK (feel free to correct me on that one:) ) . This would then leave us gamers in those regions with the only option of purchasing the full game, with all the extra costs that importing it brings, if we wish to remain part of the AA community!

We recently joined an alliance with JustPlay to exclusively distribute Matrix Games' range of products throughout Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

Here´s the link to the article on or main website:

http://www.matrixgames.com/insidemg/mod ... le&sid=115

Raindog101 · Post by **Raindog101** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:37 am

Originally posted by David Heath
Yes everything that was in AA will be in HTTR.

David

Including the beautiful, fat printed manual?

Please.

PS- Is there somewhere to download the old patches?

Golf33 · Post by **Golf33** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 4:09 am

I have them on HDD, total about 13 mB which is too big for email. If JeF has them, maybe he could upload to the Drop Zone? Same for expansion maps & scenario packs?

Cheers
33

Kevinugly · Post by **Kevinugly** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 5:16 am

Good to know Matrix have sorted out a European/UK distribution deal. One less concern for me to worry over. I'll try to avoid hijacking any more threads:) although I'm sure I'm neither the first nor the last:D

JeF · Post by **JeF** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 11:27 am

Kevin,

it's was not you I had in mind about thread hijacking

In fact, I had another thread in mind.

Golf33,

Originally posted by Golf33
I have them on HDD, total about 13 mB which is too big for email. If JeF has them, maybe he could upload to the Drop Zone? Same for expansion maps & scenario packs?

In one of those wise move that I have the secret, I was waiting for patch 3 to ask a colleague to download and burn the whole lot (patches + expansions) for me. I decided that it was too much for my little modem. So I only have patch 1. :rolleyes:

It is a good idea to have these available somewhere.

Remember that except your Juno Beach scenario and map, those are still the property of Panther Games. I cannot reproduce them without asking.

I've just asked. Stay tuned.

Cheers,

JeF.

Golf33 · Post by **Golf33** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 7:05 pm

JeF,

when you get permission to host the old patches etc., email me with the ftp address and password for the Drop Zone, and I will upload them for you.

Regards
33

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:48 am

Originally posted by Old Eagle101
Including the beautiful, fat printed manual?

Please.

PS- Is there somewhere to download the old patches?

Hi

Sorry no fat manual. Dave and myself talked about this and we both agreed that it was not possible. We are working on a few details and will make them available once we are ready.

Fallschirmjager · Post by **Fallschirmjager** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 5:48 am

Originally posted by David Heath
Hi

Sorry no fat manual. Dave and myself talked about this and we both agreed that it was not possible. We are working on a few details and will make them available once we are ready.

How about a really nice 200+ pages strategy guide that we can buy seperate of the game?

Raindog101 · Post by **Raindog101** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:24 am

Originally posted by David Heath
Hi

Sorry no fat manual. Dave and myself talked about this and we both agreed that it was not possible. We are working on a few details and will make them available once we are ready.

David, I know nothing of marketing or publishing, but is it really that expensive for a fat printed manual? I'd be willing to pay extra for one.

That's the only complaint I have with UV. The manual. It was a not so good manual and a horrible tutorial.

IMHO, a good manual (for instance-The Combat Mission series, or the one from AA-RDOA) add to the enjoyment of the game.

How about selling them separate from the game for $6.95 each?
Maybe you could even make a buck doing that?

Complex wargames deserve a fat manual.

Or at least a manual that is coded into the game, that can be accessed with a hotkey and easily patched. That might even be better.

Sigh....I hate alt-tab to go fumble through a pdf file. Arrrgh!

Just my 2 cents.

Raindog101 · Post by **Raindog101** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 6:29 am

Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
How about a really nice 200+ pages strategy guide that we can buy seperate of the game?

Aye, The startegy guide sold separtly for CMBB is a must have.