Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

GetAssista
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:13 am

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by GetAssista »

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak
Admittedly, my conversion knowledge is poor to non-existent. Conversions should be done (the first that comes to mind is Clemson class to APD), but in terms of xAK -> support classes, my knowledge is abysmal. It's those type of plays (among others) that separate me from the more skilled members of this forum! [&o]
Most important thing for the Allies wrt conversions is to locate all the xAP (and some AK/xAK?) that are able to convert to APAs in 43 - and keep them out of harms way on some backwater routes or in port. Those are your most important assault transports later and you don't get that many
Then locate all the Harriman class xAKs and move them to some safe port like SF or Bombay or offmap to convert to AKEs
Resist the temptation to move supply too forward too quickly. First, you don't have troops out there yet, and you might end up feeding the Japs. Second, you don't have enough ASW escorts in the first months of war. Third, there is enough on Java and Oz to last a while. If Mersing gambit works out ok be prepared to lose Ceylon in spring. Try to run some supply to Rangoon though
User avatar
BBfanboy
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:36 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Contact:

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Cheesesteak

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

How far does your laziness and disorganization extend with regard to all of the various things that need to be set in motion at the game start?

Are you aware of the need to examine every last xAK in every last port on the map to identify the ones that can convert to other, every important ship types, before getting them caught up in supply TFs?

Are you aware of the need to get every last xAK that you don't set to convert headed toward major supply/troop hubs?

The Allies merchant marine starts the game scattered to the four winds and getting them moving toward important hubs is a first turn must.

You stated you have played several PBEM games so I assume you have picked up already on some of these important points.

Let me know when I'm rehashing basics you have already learned.

The level of allied disorganization is astounding. I referred to laziness partly in jest, partly as an operational necessity. Hopefully Aaffins and I, when our powers of patience combine, can get right-sized TFs running with like-minded ships in good order. While clicking through pilot pools will forever frustrate me, seeing forward operating bases swollen with tons of supply brings irrational amounts of satisfaction.

As an imperfect rule, I try to slightly increase supply and fuel at bases like Colombo and PH through early-42, while pushing as much forward as possible. Too early to gauge when the Scen 2 hammer will fall, but never too early to get shipping in motion.

Side note, Turning off the 500 HI at Sydney may be viewed as gamey, but likely the only feasible way to avoid turning Hobart or Auckland into the SoPac shipping hub.

Admittedly, my conversion knowledge is poor to non-existent. Conversions should be done (the first that comes to mind is Clemson class to APD), but in terms of xAK -> support classes, my knowledge is abysmal. It's those type of plays (among others) that separate me from the more skilled members of this forum! [&o]

I turn my Lassen class xAKs into AEs ASAP. They have 5400 capacity when converted and can arm the Iowa class BBs. They are also fairly fast. But underway ammo replenishment is not available until 1945 (not positive of date) so I keep these AEs in fairly safe places, well protected by sub nets and air cover. To fill the gap there is a fairly numerous class of xAK that is about 5250 tons that converts to AKEs of 4200 tons capacity. These will arm most all Allied BBs and can be risked in forward bases.

One of the shortages I find in the early game is xAPs small enough to dock at level 1&2 ports and still carry enough supply to support the unit being landed. So I convert a lot of the British 3900 ton capacity xAKs into xAPs of 1000/2200 tons. Very handy. There are also some British xAKs of over 5000 tons that convert to xAPs of 1300/1850 capacity. On the US side, the 14 Kt. xAPs of around 4400 tons convert to xAPs of 1660/2000? tons.

Depending on your proclivity for mining your own ports, there are a few ships that can convert to ACMs to maintain the minefields. I think the 2600 nm range YPs can convert, and a couple of the Dutch PGs or PCs.

Don't convert your big US subs (Argonaut, Narwhal and Nautilus) to cargo subs until you have used them as minelayers. IIRC they are the only ones who can lay one type of mine that is available at game start but gets discontinued almost immediately. Just use up the pool available and then convert the subs to carry supply to cut-off garrisons or even paratroops for invasion of lightly defended bases.

Some of the small vessels that arrive have no ASW capability but can convert to a type that does have it. I tend to do the conversions early on because there are just too damn few escort vessels available. Once the Japanese sub threat has been dealt with or more capable ASW ships are available, these small vessels can usually be converted back.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
User avatar
HansBolter
Posts: 7457
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: United States

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by HansBolter »

I didn't take the time to provide a detailed list of conversions as I am at work and operating from memory.

Don't overlook the xAKs that can convert to AKEs and especially AKVs. I think a small number can also convert to ARs.

There are also a plethora of xAKs that can convert to AGs. Most players posting don't see a value in converting all of these but I almost always do so. They can still be used for transport and only suffer a small reduction in capacity with the conversion.


And once you have established somewhat secure supply lines take advantage of Continuous Supply task forces.
I've had CS TFs running from WC to Pearl almost from game start and have 10m supply and 5m fuel in Pearl in late '45.
Hans

User avatar
Cheesesteak
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Cheesesteak »

Thank you for the tips and advice, all.

Has anyone had success with early blocking maneuvers around Rangoon (Scen 2)? I can't recall seeing any, so my initial thought is to run for the forest and hunker down.



"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
User avatar
Canoerebel
Posts: 21099
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:21 pm
Location: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Contact:

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Canoerebel »

I'm dipping my toe in here warily. You gents be on yer best behavior now, ya hear?

No need to run for the jungle in Burma. As long as you pay attention and guard against disruptive paratroop assaults, there isn't that much your opponent can do before Singapore falls (or at least until he manages to get big convoys to the area, which can be accomplished before Singers falls). His advance is mainly overland, through the jungle, with only a few decent units and supply issues. You can slow those guys by bombing and take stands in the jungle around Moulmein, further slowing him.

You'll have to garrison your key rail bases, lest he take them and turn the tables on you.

If he dallies too long, of if he gets bogged down at Singers or Manila so that he has trouble freeing troops, you may even have to decide whether to insert some of the UK/Indian reinforcements. To make that worthwhile, you'll have to proactively gets some supply convoys to Rangoon as early as possible.

And, of course, you have to watch out for novel approaches, such as an opponent that marches through the back roads for Taung Gyi or somesuch.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
User avatar
Chickenboy
Posts: 24648
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I'm dipping my toe in here warily. You gents be on yer best behavior now, ya hear?

Speaking of (skinny)dipping, is this the thread du jour for those with latent hippy tendencies? I couldn't help but notice Daddy-o Canoerebel's posting here, so figured this was the right place to look.
Image
User avatar
Bif1961
Posts: 2014
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:52 pm
Location: Phenix City, Alabama

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Bif1961 »

I am a purest when it comes to war movies but you have to enjoy a WWII movies with 60s hippie music.
User avatar
Cheesesteak
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Cheesesteak »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I'm dipping my toe in here warily. You gents be on yer best behavior now, ya hear?

No need to run for the jungle in Burma. As long as you pay attention and guard against disruptive paratroop assaults, there isn't that much your opponent can do before Singapore falls (or at least until he manages to get big convoys to the area, which can be accomplished before Singers falls). His advance is mainly overland, through the jungle, with only a few decent units and supply issues. You can slow those guys by bombing and take stands in the jungle around Moulmein, further slowing him.

You'll have to garrison your key rail bases, lest he take them and turn the tables on you.

If he dallies too long, of if he gets bogged down at Singers or Manila so that he has trouble freeing troops, you may even have to decide whether to insert some of the UK/Indian reinforcements. To make that worthwhile, you'll have to proactively gets some supply convoys to Rangoon as early as possible.

And, of course, you have to watch out for novel approaches, such as an opponent that marches through the back roads for Taung Gyi or somesuch.


Thanks for the tips. I intended to do a screenshare, but it seems the forum shares your trepidation: I'm still waiting a week before being aloud to post pictures or links. One item Aaffins noted: the 33rd landed in PI, and that div is usually earmarked for Burma.
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
User avatar
Cheesesteak
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Cheesesteak »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
I'm dipping my toe in here warily. You gents be on yer best behavior now, ya hear?

Speaking of (skinny)dipping, is this the thread du jour for those with latent hippy tendencies? I couldn't help but notice Daddy-o Canoerebel's posting here, so figured this was the right place to look.

[:D]
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
User avatar
Lawless1
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:40 pm
Location: Maryland but now living in SC

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Lawless1 »

Two types of ships, targets and submarines
Death from below
User avatar
Lawless1
Posts: 327
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:40 pm
Location: Maryland but now living in SC

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Lawless1 »

Many ships can be converted in Dec 41 to ships with greater AA/ASW assets, the trick is to find an locate them. As was historical the vast Allied fleet is scatter throughout the various areas of operations.

Each scenario has its own set of ships that can be converted, below are the ship classes that can be converted in December 1941 in the Scn#26 BabesLite A, stock map, Dec 7th start

xAK to AG, AKE, AP

Clemson Class DD to DE, APD, AVD, DM, DMS

Wicks Class DD to DE, APD,

Admiralty S Class - DD, DM

Admiralty HDML Class - three different HDML Types

Wilcannia xAKL to PC, AG, AMc

WIlcannia Class AMc to PC, AG, xAKL

Trasmarine Class xAK to AG

Harriman Class xAK to AKE

Dominon M Cargo Class to AP

Hog Island Tender Class to AKE

C2 Cargo Class to AP

Bird Class AM to AVP

select AMC to LST

Fairmile B Class ML to MGB (three different MGB with different AA and 2 different ML)

Beam Tr YP class to ACM. YMS


Two types of ships, targets and submarines
Death from below
User avatar
Cheesesteak
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Cheesesteak »

ORIGINAL: Lawless1

Many ships can be converted in Dec 41 to ships with greater AA/ASW assets, the trick is to find an locate them. As was historical the vast Allied fleet is scatter throughout the various areas of operations.

Each scenario has its own set of ships that can be converted, below are the ship classes that can be converted in December 1941 in the Scn#26 BabesLite A, stock map, Dec 7th start

xAK to AG, AKE, AP

Clemson Class DD to DE, APD, AVD, DM, DMS

Wicks Class DD to DE, APD,

Admiralty S Class - DD, DM

Admiralty HDML Class - three different HDML Types

Wilcannia xAKL to PC, AG, AMc

WIlcannia Class AMc to PC, AG, xAKL

Trasmarine Class xAK to AG

Harriman Class xAK to AKE

Dominon M Cargo Class to AP

Hog Island Tender Class to AKE

C2 Cargo Class to AP

Bird Class AM to AVP

select AMC to LST

Fairmile B Class ML to MGB (three different MGB with different AA and 2 different ML)

Beam Tr YP class to ACM. YMS



Cheers!

AAffins is traveling for a few days, so I will be on my own to screw this up as best I can! To paraphrase crsutton, so long as I don't sink our CVs, the war is not lost.
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
User avatar
RangerJoe
Posts: 19377
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:39 pm
Location: Who knows?

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by RangerJoe »

Just don't be a Stan Laurel to Oliver Hardy: "Another fine mess you've gotten me into!"
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing! :o

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
:twisted: ; Julia Child


Image
User avatar
Cheesesteak
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Cheesesteak »

Admittedly a bit too young to get the reference, but the trope is ubiquitous.

Turn 2 is in the hands of our opponent!

Nothing fantastically noteworthy. Many, many TFs were created as the great exodus begins. I'm curious what kind of drinks were enjoyed by the TF commanders prior to leaving port. Did the gents at Singapore drink more than those at Manila. Asking the real questions here...


Supreme Command has transferred in a new anti-air specialist from CONUS. With a number of confirmed kills already under his belt, let's see what he can do on foreign soil.

Image
Attachments
jacksonnn2.jpg
jacksonnn2.jpg (146.27 KiB) Viewed 430 times
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
User avatar
Cheesesteak
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by Cheesesteak »

Apologies for the delay. Hosted guests from out of town. Turn two came back, and it's grim.

Suffering immense casualties is to be expected. Everyone flees, but right into the arms of waiting SCTFs. I'll post a list of ship losses if anyone is interested. Functionally, if it started the game floating in Singapore or Manila, it is no longer above water. Force Z was intercepted while escaping.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Kalidjati at 53,98

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 29 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N1 Kate x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N1 Kate: 2 damaged
B5N1 Kate: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
BC Repulse

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B5N1 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo



going 5-11 on the PoW makes me miss the DBB mod [:@]
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
User avatar
RangerJoe
Posts: 19377
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:39 pm
Location: Who knows?

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by RangerJoe »

Laurel and Hardy were a comedy team. I think that they were in vaudeville and then made movies.

Skinny Laurel would always get into trouble and phat Hardy was with him. Not that Hardy was innocent either . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHez6_Gwaq0
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing! :o

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
:twisted: ; Julia Child


Image
User avatar
HansBolter
Posts: 7457
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:30 pm
Location: United States

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by HansBolter »

Why do Allied PBEM players do this to themselves?

Why on earth would anyone agree to a non-historic first turn with surprise?

If the Japanese want to attack the entire world on the first turn, let them do it without surprise.

Showing up with carrier and invasion forces at Mersing at the same time they are bombing Pearl Harbor means they can't possibly have surprise anywhere.

Why are Allied PBEM players so masochistic?

Why don't any ever stand their ground and refuse to allow this kind of "hand the game to your opponent on a silver platter" nonsense?

One of the many reasons I don't engage in PBEM.
Hans

User avatar
BillBrown
Posts: 2335
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 3:55 am

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by BillBrown »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Why do Allied PBEM players do this to themselves?

Why on earth would anyone agree to a non-historic first turn with surprise?

If the Japanese want to attack the entire world on the first turn, let them do it without surprise.

Showing up with carrier and invasion forces at Mersing at the same time they are bombing Pearl Harbor means they can't possibly have surprise anywhere.

Why are Allied PBEM players so masochistic?

Why don't any ever stand their ground and refuse to allow this kind of "hand the game to your opponent on a silver platter" nonsense?

One of the many reasons I don't engage in PBEM.

As a primarily allied PBEM player, why would I not allow it? I do try and limit my Japanese opponents to some reasonable set of first turn moves, but first turn surprise only does so much. There are 1648 more turns after turn 1, let the Japanese player get a good start. My first turn rules let me salvage PoW and Repulse for a few much less worthy ships and aircraft.
User avatar
RangerJoe
Posts: 19377
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:39 pm
Location: Who knows?

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by RangerJoe »

It could also be sort of an equalizer between an experienced Allied player and a lesser experienced Japanese player.
Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing! :o

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
:twisted: ; Julia Child


Image
mind_messing
Posts: 3394
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:59 am

RE: Always with them negative waves... Aaffins/Cheesesteak v. RADM Yamaguchi

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Why do Allied PBEM players do this to themselves?

Why on earth would anyone agree to a non-historic first turn with surprise?

If the Japanese want to attack the entire world on the first turn, let them do it without surprise.

Showing up with carrier and invasion forces at Mersing at the same time they are bombing Pearl Harbor means they can't possibly have surprise anywhere.

Why are Allied PBEM players so masochistic?

Why don't any ever stand their ground and refuse to allow this kind of "hand the game to your opponent on a silver platter" nonsense?

One of the many reasons I don't engage in PBEM.

We've had divergencies over this before, so I'll keep it brief.

In a game that should run to something over 1600 turns, one turn (even with the benefits of the Dec 7th surprise) only has so much impact. It's a concession to rectify the massive material imbalance that exists between Japan and the Allies.

Over the years, the non-historic first turn been optimized and refined in a way that's encouraged by competitive play.

The fact that you don't engage if PBEM gives you less right to critiqe. Take the plunge, find someone of the same mindset of you and see what beauty there can be in PBEMs!

Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”