Not bad for a 20+ year old game

The sequel of the legendary wargame with a complete graphics and interface overhaul, major new gameplay and design features such as full naval combat modelling, improved supply handling, numerous increases to scenario parameters to better support large scenarios, and integrated PBEM++.
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76mm
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight
Technically your quite right. But the likelihood of Steam or some product with an online license scheme would be in a much better position to enforce that than MG would.
I think what Blond Knight is saying is that Steam could cut off access to your game(s) with the flip of a switch if they wanted to, whereas it seems like the best Matrix could do would be to lock you out of patches, etc.

For me the only advantage offered by Steam is automatic patching/updating, but that is not a big deal for me. I generally don't play games on my laptop, so being able to play on multiple computers is almost meaningless (and besides, I can install any game I have on multiple computers even without Steam, so...). I though it would be cool to be able to track how many hours I play each game, until I realized that it counts the game as being "played" whenever it is open on my computer, so if I leave games open for a week (as I do), those play hours are completely meaningless as well. And did I mention Steam's horrible UI? I feel like banging my head on a wall every time I use it.
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: 76mm
ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight
Technically your quite right. But the likelihood of Steam or some product with an online license scheme would be in a much better position to enforce that than MG would.
I think what Blond Knight is saying is that Steam could cut off access to your game(s) with the flip of a switch if they wanted to, whereas it seems like the best Matrix could do would be to lock you out of patches, etc.

For me the only advantage offered by Steam is automatic patching/updating, but that is not a big deal for me. I generally don't play games on my laptop, so being able to play on multiple computers is almost meaningless (and besides, I can install any game I have on multiple computers even without Steam, so...). I though it would be cool to be able to track how many hours I play each game, until I realized that it counts the game as being "played" whenever it is open on my computer, so if I leave games open for a week (as I do), those play hours are completely meaningless as well. And did I mention Steam's horrible UI? I feel like banging my head on a wall every time I use it.

No, they can't. You have the opportunity to back up every install of every game and you have the key to all of them. There is no flip of the switch. And what horrible UI? You click on the Steam icon and have a list of your games. You click on the game and play it. You are not there to play Steam. You are there to play a game. And who gives a hang about how many hours you play. I don't care about how many hours I've played a game. It is meaningless statistics. I suppose someone with an accountant attitude might care.

I forgot. One of the best things is that any update is there for you. If you have ten non Steam games you may have to look ten different places to check for a patch. That was a pain in the rear and time consuming. Rather just be playing a game instead of checking to see if a patch is available.

Please, tell me about the horrible UI.

You know, all of the Steamophobics have a personal issue about using it. That's ok, each to his own. I like many things about it and dislike few. Some feel the other way. Everyone has their own brain. But I like to let people make up their own mind instead of throwing trash and propaganda in their path to try and influence them in a negative manner.
ne nothi tere te deorsum (don't let the bastards grind you down)

If duct tape doesn't fix it then you are not using enough duct tape.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein.
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Lobster
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

It's sad. Very sad. I was pointing out how well this very old game is doing and the Steamophobes come out of the woodwork like roaches.
ne nothi tere te deorsum (don't let the bastards grind you down)

If duct tape doesn't fix it then you are not using enough duct tape.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein.
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Blond_Knight
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Blond_Knight »

Sorry, I was trying to answer RealchuckB's question about why some people don't like Steam.

I would like to point out that while you can locally backup your games from Steam as you stated, Youre not going to be running those games outside Steam. My point is if Steam is hit by a bus or Steam decides you don't have a license anymore for a game your not playing it, files or not.
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76mm
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by 76mm »

ORIGINAL: Lobster
And what horrible UI? You click on the Steam icon and have a list of your games. You click on the game and play it. You are not there to play Steam. You are there to play a game...Please, tell me about the horrible UI.
um, I been telling you about the horrible UI. And no, Steam is not just to launch games as you suggest...everything from messaging, to forums, to uploading mods, is a major pain. And most of all, most of the screen is taken up by adverts for, or links to, crap that I have no interest in (currently my Stream screen is full of crap about Fortnite, DOTA, DOOM, etc, none of which I have every expressed an interest in.

When I launch a game on my computer, I go to the desktop folder where all of them are installed. No log-in, no adverts, no fuss.
ORIGINAL: Lobster
You know, all of the Steamophobics have a personal issue about using it...But I like to let people make up their own mind instead of throwing trash and propaganda in their path to try and influence them in a negative manner.
I don't have a "personal issue", I've explained why I don't like it; I don't really care if people like Steam, but it is not for me. I have not called your opinion "trash and propaganda" so I'm not sure why you feel the need to label mine as such?
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: Blond_Knight

Sorry, I was trying to answer RealchuckB's question about why some people don't like Steam.

I would like to point out that while you can locally backup your games from Steam as you stated, Youre not going to be running those games outside Steam. My point is if Steam is hit by a bus or Steam decides you don't have a license anymore for a game your not playing it, files or not.

You don't have to have an internet connection to run Steam. So if your power goes out because of errant buses you can still run Steam. You need Steam to run in the background because of the mostly DRM titles. Also, while you seem to think Steam decides whether or not a game is DRM, they don't. That is entirely up to the publisher/developer. It is not a Steam decision. Steam does have DRM free games. Some with caveats decided on by the publisher/developer. https://steam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

Steam cannot and would not 'revoke' a license. That is a publisher/developer decision. Steam is simply a middleman. Steam insures that games cannot be pirated. A good example is GOG. They had (maybe still do) a policy where you could 'return' a digital download if you didn't like a game. Same as Steam. But because the game was DRM free many people would say they were 'returning' the game when in fact they still had it. Some even bragged about it. So the publisher/developer was without the income and yet people still had the game. Humanity at it's finest.

Some don't like the fee Steam charges developers or publishers. In some cases it can go as high as 30%. It does prevent piracy and ensures publishers/developers their income. It also gives people a piracy free platform to get into the industry. That's why you see so much 'garbage' as some put it. Developers who have not had the fortune to get into a big house can start on their own. You have to start someplace. Also publishers are to blame for some of the 'garbage'. They throw out game development packages like they were illicit drugs making it easy to make a, I say this in the loosest sense, game. BTW, some smaller and independent developers are talking about unionizing so they have some clout in bargaining for their 'garbage'.

So, a new developer can go to Steam and try to sell their game. Without Steam exposure they might sell 100 copies at $10. With Steam they might sell 700 copies at $7. Which is better?

BTW, latest year I've seen, $74 billion estimated lost to piracy in 2014. That is a lot of money. Now if you can come up with a way to prevent piracy, expose noob devs to a large public audience and pay your bills without taking any money from the devs I'm sure you will be very popular.

So if you don't like Steam or the many other platforms like them and think they should all go away then fine, your call. But if you think Steam and all the other platforms like them are evil you are wrong. They do have a place in this software piracy world.

"The popular gaming news outlet PC Gamer conducted a survey last year in which they received 50,742 answers from players all over the world. The question at hand? Whether or not they had ever pirated a video game. Turns out, 90% of PC gamers have pirated a game, and 25% have pirated more than 50.

Turns out there is far more data on this. For instance, younger players between the ages of 10 and 25 were the most likely to pirate, “. . . with that likelihood decreasing about 5% per age group between 16-20 and 51-60.” Also, those earning less than $10,000 annually pirate the most, at 50%, while those making $10,001 – $25,000 fall at about 32.5%.The U.S. alone pirates more games than the U.K. and Canada combined.

When asked if they think it’s wrong, 34.8% of the respondents answered yes but that it didn’t stop them. This is further explained, however: most players use piracy to demo a video game. Others simply can’t afford them.

Most surprisingly, DRM is listed as the second to last reason for piracy. Although complaints about DRM or specific publishers are common, they weren’t cited as reasons to pirate. In fact, “Those reasons never rose above 20 percent.”
ne nothi tere te deorsum (don't let the bastards grind you down)

If duct tape doesn't fix it then you are not using enough duct tape.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein.
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Lobster
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

ORIGINAL: 76mm
ORIGINAL: Lobster
And what horrible UI? You click on the Steam icon and have a list of your games. You click on the game and play it. You are not there to play Steam. You are there to play a game...Please, tell me about the horrible UI.
um, I been telling you about the horrible UI. And no, Steam is not just to launch games as you suggest...everything from messaging, to forums, to uploading mods, is a major pain. And most of all, most of the screen is taken up by adverts for, or links to, crap that I have no interest in (currently my Stream screen is full of crap about Fortnite, DOTA, DOOM, etc, none of which I have every expressed an interest in.

When I launch a game on my computer, I go to the desktop folder where all of them are installed. No log-in, no adverts, no fuss.
ORIGINAL: Lobster
You know, all of the Steamophobics have a personal issue about using it...But I like to let people make up their own mind instead of throwing trash and propaganda in their path to try and influence them in a negative manner.
I don't have a "personal issue", I've explained why I don't like it; I don't really care if people like Steam, but it is not for me. I have not called your opinion "trash and propaganda" so I'm not sure why you feel the need to label mine as such?

My user interface. What ads? What links? What are you doing wrong? What login? BTW, when you launch TOAW you are faced with ads and links unless you try and launch from the .exe directly.

"trash and propaganda" is a reference to the general things I see on the internet directed at things people don't like so they can make their argument 'correct'. And not just Steam. We are all guilty at some point. I've never said anything was good or bad. Simply try it and decide for yourself instead of listening to negative opinions (trash and propaganda) from others.


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ne nothi tere te deorsum (don't let the bastards grind you down)

If duct tape doesn't fix it then you are not using enough duct tape.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein.
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Lobster
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by Lobster »

Again, this was supposed to be about how well TOAW was doing after 20+ years. Others made it about other things, basically a platform so they can bash Steam instead of celebrate TOAW. [:(][8|]
ne nothi tere te deorsum (don't let the bastards grind you down)

If duct tape doesn't fix it then you are not using enough duct tape.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe-Einstein.
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sPzAbt653
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RE: Not bad for a 20+ year old game

Post by sPzAbt653 »

TOAW would be doing much better without steam [:D]
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