Walking in Allied Shoes (BtS Lite - Kitakami vs. John 3rd)

[Kitakami]

Halt all Chinese reinforcements except for support squads. That is, if the units have a lot of disabled squads. They need the undisabled support to undisable the other devices that are disabled. If you can get a buyable unit trashed, it will be cheaper, then get it to India to muscle up. Putting big Chinese Armies with Commonwealth armour and artillery is always a winner. All that you need is ONE division to survive for the buyable Army to be formed.

***** Chinese units to India is an option yes. But House Rules say I have to pay the PP to move them out, so it won't be too many.

Don't needlessly change the preparation for Chinese units as well and the low experienced Indian units. The sooner that they get to 100 prep points, the sooner that their experience and morale will improve. Who cares about their morals, however.

***** Yes, this is my standard practice.

If you can save the Dutch MTBs with DCs (unless they were changed) they are good to attack minisubs with. There are three of those normally, so don't upgrade them to lose the DCs.

***** I wil definitely take a look at this.

Use the HDMLs as admiral's yachts, that way the combat ships can be repaired without losing the TF number and leader.

***** I sometimes prefer to accept the loss, because some of my opponents do track TF numbers.

Send the Dutch floating repair docks to safety now. They will be useful later.

Indeed! Perth is a safer place... hopefully!

Some of the small dutch ships can be converted to other things. Some can even fly a float plane. Don't needlessly lose those.

***** I will check this out too.

Fly out parts of the Guam and Wake Island units so you won't have to pay to buy them back. Same thing for the buyable Filipino units, send just a fraction somewhere else so that can survive to be bought out cheaply if they use common devices.

***** I usually do this with Aus' Lark Force.

Consider relocating the Chinese air force, then buy it out to send to India for massive training as well as waiting for better aircraft.

***** The sending to India is a great idea.

Disband any Dutch air units that might be overrun so you won't have to pay PP to get them back. They may never have better aircraft than the P-40E and the B-25C, but they can be used later against cut off Japanese forces.

***** Agreed. Standard practice, and not only with the Dutch.

When you ship air units by sea, break the units up into thirds and remove the pilots. That way, you would only lose 1/3 of the unit if the freighter is sunk and no pilots.

***** Hmm... interesting tactic. Never thought of doing it, but it does have its merit.

Thanks!

[Kitakami]

I am waiting for John to do turn 1. It will take at least a couple of days. Please be patient

[RangerJoe]

No problem for me. I just thought that you would like a few pointers. Now, if you want to know how to buy out units on the cheap . . .

[Lowpe]

In this game Perth is not safe.

[Kitakami]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
In this game Perth is not safe.

In that case I'll need to find a safe port. Capetown?

[RangerJoe]

Melbourne?

[Lowpe]

Probably any of the very southern Oz ports, below the line of death.

New Zealand is good too, but far away.

In this game you really need to look hard at very far away places. John likes to take distant islands to screw with your arriving reinforcements and send carrier division out like Jeb Stuart. I seriously never could understand how he consistently gets away with it.

If I played John the first two years I would use my subs merely to secure my perimeter and give warning on his Carrier Escapades. I would never put my carriers at risk during the full moon, and keep them safely behind a catalina search screen knowing he likes to jaunt 16 hexes to launch carrier strikes. Sub perimeter, Catalina perimeter, other land based air perimeter, cap traps for his darting carrier strikes. Build bases from LA, Karachi, and New Zealand, Southern Oz out sequentially. Destroy industry and supply and fuel at every opportunity. One exception, I would build as big a air bridge as I could afford to supply China and fight hard there on the ground even going so far as to use bombers to ferry supply in along with transports. Look to create a mountain fortress in western China. That threat would probably force him to change whatever plans he had and fight for eastern India which then would cause him to try and take all of India. Definitely buy out the 5 Chinese Units for India and get them marching on day 1. Mass your CVs and look to ambush one of his carrier jaunts after it has been bled a bit. Use your Brooklyn class CLs as deep raiders in those big blue areas between Honshu and his forward perimeter. Think about abandoning Ceylon, at the very least get the decent AA off. My thoughts, ymmv.

[RangerJoe]

Omaha class are good raiders with their torpedoes. Put them at low aggression so they don't stay long with a surface combat task force.

When you get enough trained Fletcher with flak up grades, they work pretty good as well.

[Kitakami]

***** Knowing your enemy is one of the greatest advantages you can have. Thank you for the insights on John's playing style.

Probably any of the very southern Oz ports, below the line of death.

***** May I ask what the like of death is? Melbourne, RangerJoe's suggestion, sounds like a good one.

New Zealand is good too, but far away.

***** Knowing John, he might go for an invasion there.

In this game you really need to look hard at very far away places. John likes to take distant islands to screw with your arriving reinforcements and send carrier division out like Jeb Stuart. I seriously never could understand how he consistently gets away with it.

***** JEB Stuart has to be my favourite Southern General after Stonewall Jackson. Having said that, I have seen that John can be... careless. I need to play to that weakness.

If I played John the first two years I would use my subs merely to secure my perimeter and give warning on his Carrier Escapades. I would never put my carriers at risk during the full moon, and keep them safely behind a catalina search screen knowing he likes to jaunt 16 hexes to launch carrier strikes. Sub perimeter, Catalina perimeter, other land based air perimeter, cap traps for his darting carrier strikes.

***** That is THE question, isn't it? Are subs a tactical or a strategic tool? In this Mod the USN has THREE floatplane carrying subs. Where should I send them?

Build bases from LA, Karachi, and New Zealand, Southern Oz out sequentially.

***** I have been making a list of available engineers both at start and as reinforcements for the first year or so. I am impressed! Japan gets so few and they are so bad...

Destroy industry and supply and fuel at every opportunity.

***** Scorched earth, yes. I try to do that in the DEI. The more expensive the repairs for Japan, the better my long-term fate.

One exception, I would build as big a air bridge as I could afford to supply China and fight hard there on the ground even going so far as to use bombers to ferry supply in along with transports.

***** Agreed. I am even considering sending UMSC transport units to Ledo.

Look to create a mountain fortress in western China. That threat would probably force him to change whatever plans he had and fight for eastern India which then would cause him to try and take all of India.

**** With our home rule that Japanese and Chinese can't assault unless they have a prep of 50, I think that front will slow down. Too bad the China tweaks were not ready for this game.

Definitely buy out the 5 Chinese Units for India and get them marching on day 1.

***** I always do. I also do not merge them until the turn before combat, so they can get more reinforcements overall.

Mass your CVs and look to ambush one of his carrier jaunts after it has been bled a bit.

***** Would Sidney be a good place to keep the CVs?

Use your Brooklyn class CLs as deep raiders in those big blue areas between Honshu and his forward perimeter.

***** Brooklyn-class, eh? Hmm... interesting thought. The one categry where the Allies hold clear superiority is in the number of cruisers. Raiders are warranted, I agree.

Think about abandoning Ceylon, at the very least get the decent AA off.

***** Abandon Ceylon? Hmm... had not considered that. Where would be the best location for that AAA?

My thoughts, ymmv.

***** Thank you very much!

[Kitakami]

Omaha class are good raiders with their torpedoes. Put them at low aggression so they don't stay long with a surface combat task force.

***** IN this mod, the Omahas can be converted into CLAAs. I think that is a use I am more comfortable with. Other CLs will have to raid in their stead.

When you get enough trained Fletcher with flak up grades, they work pretty good as well.

***** Thanks! Will write this down.

[Kitakami]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
I have a suggestion for a possible change. Admiral Phillips was in Manila talking with Admiral Hart about consolidating the Asiatic fleet with Force Z when Pearl Harbor was attacked. That is why the Blackhawk AD and the combat ships were moving to the DEI. Have that meeting earlier and consolidate the fleet and take the support ships, transports, and the Dewey out of Manila....

The suggestion was not accepted, but there WAS a change. Force Z now starts at the northernmost tip of Java (and is also reinforced by an extra BC in this mod).

[Lowpe]

I don't quite understand the Japanese Chinese 50 prep HR.

Other options to think about is a fortress Palembang. John is very strong at grabbing bases early though.

Use starting merchant ships to load fuel in Luzon and SRA draining the fuel supplies. I am not up to date on the economic changes in this mod anymore so that may or may not be useful. Another option I saw recently was loading cargo ships up in Philippines and sending supply into China. Usually, John doesn't like fighting in China, and this 50 prep rule might indicate that he really wants a quiet China so he can focus on aspects of the game he does enjoy.

John is an absolute master at Iboat operations. Early in the war, you are very vulnerable to them. Be very careful at all times, and especially when the moon wanes.

[Kitakami]

I don't quite understand the Japanese Chinese 50 prep HR.

***** This is the text of our house rules:

***** House Rules:
***** 1. No 4EB attacks below 10,000 Ft.
***** 2. Fighters can fly a max altitude of 20,000 in 1942, 30,000 in 1943, unlimited in 1944-1945
***** 3. Fighters can only Sweep in their two top maneuver bands.
***** 4. No Port attacks except by carrier aircraft on Turn One.
***** 5. No Hunting for American CVs on Turn One.
***** 6. Only ‘realistic’ Japanese invasions for Turn One.
***** 7. Must pay PP to move units across borders.
***** 8. Any Japanese or Chinese assault must be at least 50% prepped prior to the attack.

Other options to think about is a fortress Palembang. John is very strong at grabbing bases early though.

***** Tried this in our one-month test game, and I was 3 turns late. I got an air HQ from Singapore in place, and thus CAP was half-decent. But the land troops were late. 2 brigades were in place, but they were still changing mode when the assault came. They were decimated. The third brigade was sunk at sea.

***** What about a Fortress Java approach? The air HQ plus the 3 brigades to Java, supported by USAAF and USMC planes? John did not see the number of dive bombers that were already in place at the end of December, so it might come as a surprise for him.

Use starting merchant ships to load fuel in Luzon and SRA draining the fuel supplies.

***** Yes. If they sink, they sink, but he does not get that fuel.

I am not up to date on the economic changes in this mod anymore so that may or may not be useful. Another option I saw recently was loading cargo ships up in Philippines and sending supply into China.

***** This might be something John does not expect... hmm... need to check his avenues of approach.

Usually, John doesn't like fighting in China, and this 50 prep rule might indicate that he really wants a quiet China so he can focus on aspects of the game he does enjoy.

***** That makes two of us ;p

John is an absolute master at Iboat operations. Early in the war, you are very vulnerable to them. Be very careful at all times, and especially when the moon wanes.

***** I have seen this. This mod has additional USN float plane units. Those, and tons of light bombers all over, being ASW training on day 2.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Kitakami]

The Japanese Navy at start has been heavily reinforced:

- CV Akagi, Amagi (capacity 81).
- CV Hiryu, Soryu (capacity 69).
- CV Shokaku, Zuikaku (capacity 72).
- CVL Karasu, Ryukaku (capacity 33).
- CVL Ryujo (capacity 39).
- CVL Zuiho (capacity 33).
- CAV Tokachi, Kushiro (capacity 30... can undergo 180 day conversion to CV for 53 plane capacity).
- CVE Hosho, Ibuki (capacity 15)
- CVE Taiyo (capacity 27).

- BB Nagato, Mutsu (8x 40cm rifles).
- BB Owari, Hitachi (9x 41cm rifles),
- BB Fuso, Yamashiro, Ise, Hyuga (12x 36cm rifles).
- BB Tosa (10x 40cm rifles).

- BC Kongo, Haruna, Hiei, Kirishima (8x 36cm rifles).
- BC Ishitaka (10x 40cm rifles).
- BC Chichibu (4x 40cm rifles).
- BC Kawachi (9x 36cm rifles).

- CA Suzuka, Niitaka (12x 20cm rifles).
- CA Chokai, Maya, Takao, Atago (10x 20cm rifles).
- CA Mikuma, Mogami (10x 20cm rifles).
- CA Yoshiro, Miyako, Chishima, Seiki, Ashigara, Nachi, Haguro, Myoko (10x 20cm rifles).

- CL Kinugasa, Aoba, Furutaka, Kako (9x 15.5cm rifles... can undergo 25 day conversion to CLAA).
- CL Tokoro (9x 15.5cm rifles).
- CL Chikuma, Tone, Kumano, Suzuya (15x 15.5cm rifles... can undergo 75 day conversion to CA).
- CL Abukuma, Kinu, Yura, Natori, Isuzu, Nagara (7x 14 cm rifles).
- CL Minase, Otonase, Ayase, Ishikari, Niyodo, Jintsu, Naka, Sendai (7x 14cm rifles).
- CL Oi, Kitakami, Kiso (40x 61cm torpedoes).
- CL Yubari (6x 14cm rifles).

But the allies do get an increased OOB too (although some come as reinforcements):

- CV Lexington, Saratoga (capacity 90).
- CV Enterprise (capacity 90).
- CV Indomitabe (capacity 45).
- CVL King's Mountain (capacity 36).
- CVL Hermes (capacity 20).
- CLV Charlotte, Jacksonvilee (capacity 18... can undergo 120 day conversion to CVL for 36 plane capacity).
- CLV Melbourne, Wellington (capacity 15... an undergo 180 day conversion to CVL for 36 plane capacity).
- CVE Langley, Ely (capacity 14).

- BB Washington, West Virginia, Colorado, Maryland (8x 16in rifles).
- BB Mississippi, New Mexico, Idaho (12x 14in rifles).
- BB Tennessee, California (12x 14in rifles).
- BB Arizona (12x 14in rifles).
- BB Oklahoma, Nevada (10x 14in rifles).
- BB Queen Elizabeth, Valiant, Warspite (8x 15in rifles).
- BB Prince of Wales (10x 14in rifles).

- BC Chesapeake (12x 12in rifles).
- BC Constellation (8x 16in rifles).
- BC Renown (6x 15in rifles).
- BC Repulse (6x 15in rifles).

- CA Indianapolis, Portland (9x 8in rifles).
- CA Chicago, Louisville, Chester, Houston, Northampton (9x 8in rifles).
- CA Salt Lake City, Pensacola (10x 8in rifles).
- CA San Francisco, Minneapolis, Astoria, New Orleans (9x 8in rifles).
- CA Canberra (8x 8in rifles).
- CA Cornwall (8x 8in rifles).
- CA Exeter (6x 8in rifles).

- CL Phoenix, Boise, Honolulu, Helena, St. Louis (15x 6in rifles).
- CL Marblehead, Trenton, Detroit, Raleigh, Concord (10x 6in rifles... can undergo 120 day conversion to CLAA).
- CL Perth (8x 8in rifles).
- CL Adelaide (6x 6in rifles).
- CL Achiles, Leander (8x 6in rifles).
- CL Glasgow (12x 6in rifles).
- CL Belfast (12x 6in rifles).
- CL Mauritius (12x 6in rifles).
- CL Enterprise (7x 6in rifles).
- CL Dauntless, Durban, Dragon, Danae (6x 6in rifles).
- CL Caledon, Colombo, Capetown, Ceres (5x 6in rifles).
- CL Jean de Vienne (9x 152mm rifles).
- CL Eendracht (10x 15cm rifles).
- CL De Ruyter (7x 15cm rifles).
- CL Java (10x 15cm rifles).
- CL Tromp (6x 15cm rifles).

- CLAA Dido, Argonaut (10x 5.25in/50 QF Mk I).

Some changes in Allied reinforcements:

- Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV can be converted to CVE.

- Additional French reinforcements include
--- CVL Bearn.
--- BB Jean Bart (8x 380mm rifles).
--- BB Lorraine (8x 340mm rifles).
--- BC Dunquerque, Strasbourg (8x 330mm rifles).
--- CA Suffren (12x 203mm rifles).
--- CA Duquesne, Tourville (8x 203mm rifles).
--- CA Algerie (8x 203mm rifles).
--- CL Gloire (9x 152mm rifles).
--- CL Emile Bertin (9x 152mm rifles).
--- CL Lamotte-Picquet (8x 155mm rifles).
--- CL Jean d'Arc (8x 155mm rifles).

[Kitakami]

Ok... John sent me Japan's turn 1, I basically did China and existing TFs, and sent it back to him. We will see how the Allies fare.

[Bif1961]

Good luck and happy hunting.

[Kitakami]

Ok... an interesting first turn. This is what happened:

Pearl Harbor (salient points):

- BB Arizona, Bomb hits 17, on fire
- BB California, Bomb hits 9, on fire
- BB Mississippi, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
- BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
- BB Washington, Bomb hits 22, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
- BB Nevada, Bomb hits 14, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
- BB Idaho, Bomb hits 15, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
- BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 14, on fire
- BB New Mexico, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
- DD Mugford, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

The last one was the only ship sunk in the attack, but two BBs have red flotation damage. The rest is orange and less.
The other interesting point is aircraft losses:

- A6M2 Zero: 2 damaged, 1 destroyed
- B5N2 Kate: 3 damaged, 1 destroyed
- D3A1 Val: 5 damaged, 3 destroyed.

- P-36A Mohawk: 2 destroyed
- P-40B Warhawk: 5 destroyed
- PBY-5 Catalina: 1 destroyed
- B-18A Bolo: 1 destroyed
- O-47A: 1 destroyed
- C-33: 1 destroyed

American plane losses were very light, which I find surprising. Runway damage is red, though.

Manila (salient points):

- YO-41 sunk.
- AM Lark sunk.
- xAP Candesa sunk.

There are a large number of ships damaged of course, with three submarines with red flotation damage, and one xAP with red fires. This last one I don't think I can save.

The other interesting point is airplane losses. This is the breakdown (Tracker numbers):

- F1M2 11
- A6M2 10
- G3M2 10
- D3A1 6
- B5N2 5
- G4M1 5
- Ki-57-I 2
- L3Y2 1
- Ki-27b 1
- Ki-36 1
- Ki-48-Ib 1
Japanese total: 53

- P-40B 10
- Hudson I 8
- P40E 5
- Buffalo I 4
- Wirraway 4
- O-47A 4
- Stearman 75M 4
- Do-24K-1 3
- B-17D 3
- P-36A 3
- PBY-5 3
- Walrus II 2
- Blenheim IV 1
- Vildebeest III 1
- B-18A 1
- C-33 1
- PBY-4 1
Allied total: 58

Overall, the turn was not bad. Japanese air losses were higher than I expected, and Allied ship losses were lower than I expected. John has the option to attack Pearl Harbor again, which would add to his carrier air frame (and pilot) losses. I have no illusions about the Thundering Herd. John is very good at locking it down and destroying it almost completely.

OK, what do you think? Where should I run, and where should I make a stand?

All comments welcome!

[Lowpe]

He will most likely sweep Pearl again...and then perhaps bomb the following day. He might even bombard Pearl. He could also split the KB looking for American Carriers or even send some to east of Pearl. So plan on the KB being around Pearl for a few days.

He can take Pearl if he wants to, but it is a major allocation of troops and shipping.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

He can take Pearl if he wants to, but it is a major allocation of troops and shipping.

Anarcho tried to take Pearl in this mod from me, and really committed to it, nearly 10 divisions....I think John would be doing you a favor by landing at Pearl. It's too tough a nut to crack.

He did make multiple attacks on Pearl, though, and ended up damaging all 10 BBs so badly they wouldn't be useful until 1944, if at all

[RangerJoe]

Depending upon the status of your cruisers and destroyer, lots of small SCTFs could overwhelm any enemy SCTF plus the chance of sinking part of the KB. Don't forget to search at night to detect the KB. Let the PT Boats lead the way . . . [:D]