Bottlenecks overlay explanation (with picture)

[Jdane]

Glad to have been of some help.

But please, jpwrunyan, try and collect your thoughts before making as comprehensive a message you can instead of reacting to successive quotes. I get why you were doing it, but it makes it more difficult for me to reply.

You seem to have got the gist of what I was trying to convey, I will only elaborate on Operational Logistics. If you read again the relevant section of the manual carefully, you'll see that it uses a different Action Points pool than the unit proper. (And even a specific table for the cost of traversing terrain!) The bottom line being, if you need 100 Operational Action Points or less to go from a unit's position to an hex of road where there was enough LIS during the turn resolution to carry the supplies requested, the units gets resupplied 100%. Spend more than 100 AP and it brings back less than that (150 AP being 50%, it's in the manual). (Modulo Food of course.)

As for you Grotius, I agree with your observation about the (100%). That's why I said I don't feel I understood that, it's what puzzles me about it.

P.S. I've spent my allotted brain power for the day but am not unwilling to take a look at it later.

[Jdane]

- Chair to keyboard interface failure. Please disregard. -
- Also please upgrade these forums' software. Cheers. -

[Jdane]

I managed to scrap some brain power back and realized it was not so much required to process the last set of pictures, which is just a recap. [:'(]

Grotius is entirely correct about the mine only needing LIS available to operate but not actually spending it.
As for why the Used Points filters tells us no LIS has been spent to bring back Items from the mine to the HQ, this requires further investigation. Notably, finding out if the zone sent those Items to SHQ or not. In my experience, it can happen that if the amount of Items in the zone inventory is low, this doesn't happen.

[Cornuthaum]

I think the Used LP filter is literally only for SHQ to Troops, not featuring any actual infrastructural LP, including the rather important "ok but do my other zones actually get the resources they need to build things"

[jpwrunyan]

ORIGINAL: Jdane
Glad to have been of some help.

But please, jpwrunyan, try and collect your thoughts before making as comprehensive a message you can instead of reacting to successive quotes. I get why you were doing it, but it makes it more difficult for me to reply.

Sorry, it had the opposite effect of what I intended then. It was actually *more* difficult for me to post in that format so I doubt I'll do it again if it benefits neither of us. I spent the whole day on this myself and have gone back to trying to use what I've learned.

As others have said, this overlay section only shows logistics to units. I'm not yet sure how the logistics for transporting goods works. I'm wondering if it's a simpler system. Once the game calculates unit logistics and removes those points from the board, then whatever points are left in a hex are checked against each asset to see if the asset has enough to operate. If it does it sends its goods directly to its zone's storage. But this hypothesis leaves out the SHQ -> Zone and Zone -> SHQ part. I think those belong in a new thread, though. Anyway, I'm ready to re-watch that part of Das' video and finally put the pieces together.

The goal here was simply to understand the bottlenecks overlay, which turned out to require understanding all the logistics overlays. I still need to put together a corrected version of my first example picture, but it's going to require an explanation for each of the overlays. So four times the original effort.

Edit: Crap, I made the mistake of re-reading the manual and now I'm confused all over again. Not totally confident about anything I wrote above. I'm going to bed.

Edit2: Yeah, definitely the numbers on the "Used Pts" overlay don't make sense to me once they leave the road and head south to Bismark: For example the two hexes with the yellow line that say "100". If you look at those same hexes with "Current Pts" or "Used Pts" it reads "33". It must be that "Used Pts" is used operation points, not logistics points. But what is stumping me is how the math adds up. The manual *really* doesn't go into enough detail here. Gonna come back to this later.

Edit3: Assets do *not* consume points. I finally the place in the manual that confirms this:

You should be aware of the rule that Public Assets (although they do not consume Logistical Points) need a road connection to their City that has at least a 100 Logistical Points per Asset level. Private Assets need only half that.

The important part is in the parentheses written like an afterthought! :-O

[Destragon]

ORIGINAL: Jdane

As for why the Used Points filters tells us no LIS has been spent to bring back Items from the mine to the HQ, this requires further investigation. Notably, finding out if the zone sent those Items to SHQ or not. In my experience, it can happen that if the amount of Items in the zone inventory is low, this doesn't happen.

ORIGINAL: Cornuthaum

I think the Used LP filter is literally only for SHQ to Troops, not featuring any actual infrastructural LP, including the rather important "ok but do my other zones actually get the resources they need to build things"

When you take your initial points and subtract your currently still available points from it, you get the "used points", so I really don't think that that overlay is missing anything.

Note that city hexes in the used points overlay show up as consuming logistics points. That's probably how items get shipped back and forth between your zones.
I attached an example image. The road tile after the city of Carbon is listed as having used 817 logistics points. The city is listed as 1555, meaning that the city itself must have used up 1555 - 817 = 738 logistics points.

[Destragon]

If you're still confused about how logistics work in this game, the example that made me understand them is this:
Think of your logistics network as a network of pipes.
The amount of logistics points on a tile tell you how wide the pipe is on that tile, or how much throughput it can handle.
If you have units at the end of your supply network that require supplies that translate into a total of 200 logistics points, then you will need an uninterrupted line of tiles from that point all the way to your SHQ, which EACH have AT LEAST 200 logistics points.
If some tile half way between your SHQ and your units only has 100 points, then a bottleneck is created (a black piece of road on the bottleneck overlay) and the units will only be partially supplied. The "pipe" on the tile with 100 logistics points is too thin to be able to handle the full throughput that is required to supply those units fully.

Another way to say it would be that a tile's logistics points are the tile's capacity for how much supply movement it can handle.

I have some shitty MSPaint examples for this.
This picture here shows units on the right side of the screen, which did not get any supplies, even though they are pretty much surrounded by logistics points. The reason for that is that the road between Jarada and the SHQ on the left has too few logistics points on one spot, meaning that it did not have the capacity to handle the supply movement for those units on the right. The "pipe" was too thin:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... xample.png
This shows the same bottleneck, but this time it has baaarely enough supply points to have enough capacity for the supply delivery:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... le_fix.png

[Naselus]

ORIGINAL: springel

"You will only see it when you get it"

--- Johan Cruyff

This is pretty much the best explanation of logi we're ever going to get to.

[Jdane]

And thus in honor of saint Johan, soccer became the ritualistic sport practiced by the monks of the LIS cult.

« Brother, abandon yourself into the embrace of the ever loving LIS, for if only you understood the logistics system, you would understand. »

[jpwrunyan]

ORIGINAL: Naselus
This is pretty much the best explanation of logi we're ever going to get to.

Unfortunately, until the developer decides to step in and help clarify things, I'm afraid you're right.