Well, since I have quit playing the game

[Erik Rutins]

I have to add that, apart from level bombers flying below 6000 feet (which causes a big morale hit), I have not had any problem managing morale and fatigue in 2.30. It works the same for me as it always did since 1.00. If you need them to fly, they'll fly. They'll just fly better when they have less fatigue and higher morale.

Standing them down and withdrawing them to a malaria-free area (yes, it does have an effect) is the quickest way to improve things. I don't worry about morale much, honestly. The main thing I do try to manage is fatigue and that's really pretty easy to do with the occasional stand down or lessening in the percentage of planes flying.

I can't say I've had any problems with what you say has driven you away from the game, RevRick. Could you post what your standard method has been since 1.00? Perhaps it differs with what I'm doing.

Regards,

- Erik

[CapAndGown]

I personally don't have a problem with the system. I thought, however, I might relate the story of one squadron that has p1ssed me off.

One my orginal VMF squadrons was committed to Irau and got into some nasty dogfights with high experience japs. Somewhere along the way the original commander was killed and now I have this complete idiot running the squadron. I think the squadron's morale goes down simply because this joker is in charge. For a while I tried keeping the squadron aloft hoping he would get shot down and I could get a new commander. Unfortunately, their morale was soooo bad that they would take one hit and abort, meaning that the japs never had a chance to shoot down the commander. So now I have restaged them to a quiet sector where I hope their morale goes back up. Once I get it to a decent level, I plan on recommitting them to heavy action and hopefully the bozo squadron leader will die for his country.

[Drex]

Originally posted by Erik Rutins
I have to add that, apart from level bombers flying below 6000 feet (which causes a big morale hit), I have not had any problem managing morale and fatigue in 2.30. It works the same for me as it always did since 1.00. If you need them to fly, they'll fly. They'll just fly better when they have less fatigue and higher morale.

Standing them down and withdrawing them to a malaria-free area (yes, it does have an effect) is the quickest way to improve things. I don't worry about morale much, honestly. The main thing I do try to manage is fatigue and that's really pretty easy to do with the occasional stand down or lessening in the percentage of planes flying.

I can't say I've had any problems with what you say has driven you away from the game, RevRick. Could you post what your standard method has been since 1.00? Perhaps it differs with what I'm doing.

Regards,

- Erik

Have had problems wwith Liberator squadrons fatigue and morale moving lower much quicker than other bomber squadrons, even in the same air attack?

[Feinder]

FWIW - Knavey told me that the reason I haven't seen his Betty/Nell squadrons in weeks is because all of the pilots are all sitting in the O-club crying in their beer. Been there for weeks and no improvement in moral.

-F-

[Nikademus]

I have only had one squadron ever present me with a chronic morale problem in a long campaign.

The 67th FG, even after it exchanged P-39's for P-38's consistantly had the most fragile and/or low morale of any unit under my command. Downright frustrating at times. I'd spend days and even weeks getting it's morale up into the high 70's or 80s and then all it would take is one mission, even unopposed to start it spiraling down back below 50 where it would then start aborting missions. Then you'd have to ground em again and even transfer them to a rear base and try to coax that morale factor back up. maybe they just wanted another excuse to go back to the OC's at Luganaville

Maybe it was because i had a idiot for a squadron leader too and he was bringing the men down. Dont remember the current leader's stats but i believe they were lackluster. It certainly wasn't the Japanese who had long shedded most of their good pilots. Op losses accounted for almost every P-38 lost (too many for that matter)

Other than that, i havn't had a serious problem with morale. Fatigue is the thing i watch for and yes, i also dont like how you have to give the men a "day off" for every medium ranged and/or opposed mission you fly.....goes against everything i've read about fatigue in the theater which was expressed and described more as a "long term" affliction vs. what we see now.

One can work around it though....or through it if the need arises. These and other complaints have not gone unheard though. So keep the faith

[mogami]

Hi, At the start of a campaign I place all my groups on rest (training 0 percent) and wait for their morale to reach 99 before commiting them. After I start using a group it flys for several weeks before I need to stand it down to rebuild morale. I keep an equal number of groups on stand down. So when an active group starts wearing out I transfer a new group in. Then I stand down the tired group and once all ac repaired I move it to a safe base to rest (it becomes a reserve group) Of course this means I never have 300+ ac flying at an airfield before 43.
The air HQ make a differance but the Allies do not have one for many months. The 1 air HQ the Japanese have seems to keep Rabaul flying (The Japanese rotate from Truk to forward bases. )

I think you are mistaking morale and fatigue for strictly the pilots.
It also represents the condition of the ac and ground crew.
You need to pause once in a while to allow the ground crew to overhaul the machines. (and give the ground crew a day off once in a while.) It is a pain in the butt to always have to consider, weather, amount of flying done recently, amount of damage suffered recently. Losing a good pilot can adversely effect the morale of a group for a while. (and a poor leader really hurts a group)

However the fatigue for routine missions (CAP/Search) has been toned down a lot in WITP.

[crsutton]

Originally posted by Feinder
One thing I have noticed tho is that, air squadrons do NOT suffer from malarial fatigue like ground units. Why should air squadrons be any different? Granted their living conditions were better than the front-line troops, but just as the HQ units suffer fatigue (just like a combat formation whos condions would be considerably worse), so should the air-squadrons.

All that considered, if your squadrons were at a constant 30% fatigue, plus -any- effects of moral, your guys would never get off the ground. But I do consider the high rate of moral loss, somewhat balanced by the fact that your pilots AREN'T suffering fatigue loss.

I don't believe that the fact that the lack of malarial fatige was INTENDED to offset the high loss of moral; but I think it works well enough.

My 2 pfennigs.
-F-

It appears that squadrons at forward bases-even when just flying cap, experince a gradual drop in morale. Could this be the effect of malaria?

[Admiral_Arctic]

I don't understand how fatigue is linked between pilot and plane. What happens in air groups that have many more pilots than planes? The tired pilot takes the nearly wrecked plane into the air and if he comes back, a fresh pilot flies the same plane in the afternoon and it is magaically repaired to excellent condition! The Japs have many air groups that have more pilots than planes.

[mapr]

Originally posted by Mogami

I think you are mistaking morale and fatigue for strictly the pilots.
It also represents the condition of the ac and ground crew.
You need to pause once in a while to allow the ground crew to overhaul the machines. (and give the ground crew a day off once in a while.) It is a pain in the butt to always have to consider, weather, amount of flying done recently, amount of damage suffered recently. Losing a good pilot can adversely effect the morale of a group for a while. (and a poor leader really hurts a group)

Would be great if crew, pilot and aircraft 'fatigue&morale' would be handled separately and not all added to pilots fatigue and ability to fight against the enemy. But toning down the routine mission fatigue fixes this 'problem' quite nicely.

However the fatigue for routine missions (CAP/Search) has been toned down a lot in WITP.

Great! Hopefully this will be fixed to UV...

[mogami]

Originally posted by Admiral_Arctic
I don't understand how fatigue is linked between pilot and plane. What happens in air groups that have many more pilots than planes? The tired pilot takes the nearly wrecked plane into the air and if he comes back, a fresh pilot flies the same plane in the afternoon and it is magaically repaired to excellent condition! The Japs have many air groups that have more pilots than planes.

Hi, The aircraft also suffer from fatigue. Not just the pilot. This is an operational level game. Because of this many factors are lumped under one "title" If it were possible (and served any further purpose) along with the list of pilots (their experience and fatigue) you would get a list of aircraft. (their maintenance and damage) But because of the scale of the game. It all gets lumped into fatigue and morale and people mis-interpet this to meaning strictly pilots. When an aircraft fails to fly on a mission it might be a fatigue number that produces this result but in actuality it might simply be there was not enough .50 cal ammo on hand that morning (even though supply was available) Don't be to strict with definitions in high level games. They represent many things, all under one umbrella.

[Drex]

Originally posted by Mogami
Hi, The aircraft also suffer from fatigue. Not just the pilot. This is an operational level game. Because of this many factors are lumped under one "title" If it were possible (and served any further purpose) along with the list of pilots (their experience and fatigue) you would get a list of aircraft. (their maintenance and damage) But because of the scale of the game. It all gets lumped into fatigue and morale and people mis-interpet this to meaning strictly pilots. When an aircraft fails to fly on a mission it might be a fatigue number that produces this result but in actuality it might simply be there was not enough .50 cal ammo on hand that morning (even though supply was available) Don't be to strict with definitions in high level games. They represent many things, all under one umbrella.

That would explain alot of things, especially my problems with Liberators.