Flaviusx (Allied) v Battlevonwar (Axis)

[battlevonwar]

I utilized my new Axis Strat, I do not think it can be beat easily Flaviusx, you did well vs it. I believe that it is a strategy will be gamebreaking for the Allies to deal with.(I was inspired by MagicMissile but added some of my own ideas in) Though someone can try to counter it? Not sure how... I can put my AAR in a bit I need to go through my Screenshots though if people are interested in seeing or we can let it remain a secret until? GG

[Flaviusx]

The weather definitely was not helpful.

I'm not sure how the Soviets ride out a campaign that starts as early as the second half of April. That is two full months more than historical. Plus the calendar worked in such a way that my initial wave of builds took an extra turn to arrive -- my first builds were only available on the July 4 turn. An eternity considering that war started on April 25.

By the time they arrived you were already knocking on Moscow's door. They popped up right as you got next to Kalinin.

Rifle corps will not slow down a panzer ball. Honestly wondering if the Sovs should simply build a bunch of mountain corps and maybe not even bother throwing up an ant screen. Rather, put them in the rear and disband them after war breaks out so you can feed the production into rifle armies.

I thought you were sloppy with your rear area security and for a moment there I thought maybe I could crash your entire supply situation with partisans and raids but nope. Partisans just aren't what they used to be and can almost be ignored now.

[Flaviusx]

The one mistake I think I made was quitting the Dnepr maybe 1 turn too early. But would that have even mattered? My fear was that you'd manage to cross and surround my armor if I stuck around there any further. Maybe I should have forced you to try an opposed crossing. But you had so much mech down south that it was way risky too do this.

[battlevonwar]

Flaviusx,

I looked at your build I think that there were too many mechs in it. Not enough rubbish at the Soviet Border... I'd of probably stacked 2-3 deep of cheap Rifle Kamikazes to sap some of my initial thrust(but that could be a waste) I have had issues with them but they give the Germans a lot of XP for nothing.

You did fine vs me, the River defenses were probably something you could of held for a turn or 2 more. Maybe 3, going behind me was of no use I utilized lots of extra Mechs for that plan this time around. I never really even had a chance to utilize my air at all and air is becoming without bottlenecks a little bit useless with a strategy like this. I might of just disbanded some of your air to put into more land units? Which I think you may have done...

Also you needed a Strong Line from Leningrad-Kalinin down to Rostov(rivers) you needed it by the point where I was at. The weather is an advantage people DOW pe-June or May and it gives them supply and space to spread out. Hard for the Russians to cope with unless you know precisely what you're doing. Why the trash front units may have been worth it. Hard to kill them all in bad weather. I got some good weather though for most of the time(you got a bad roll there)

You also faced my new Massive Build Strategy and no more variation which focuses primarily on 1 task France and the Soviet Union. Neither can hold up against it unless perhaps the British are willing to sacrifice more for France? That may have helped a little. Also if the British are willing to draw off at least 1 or 2 more Panzers in 1941 elsewhere.

That still should not stop my strategy(cheap rifle corp may be the only defense? let MM chime int?)... I have seen a Mnt Corp strat before with the Russians but I don't think that will work either. I think it's better than the mechs though. You need a lot of junk units all over the place and if the Axis are getting such good early weather I don't know there is a counter?

See my game vs MM as the Russians were utterly trashed. But I had even more armor and air than he did.

[Flaviusx]

I built no mech or armor at all. This was just the stuff they started with. In retrospect I wish I had disbanded about half it, point in fact.

I had thought I could fall back on those lines you point out. But the weather prevented me from doing this. Remember that up north was mud for like 3 turns in a row, which impeded my own movement as much as yours. I would rather it had been mud in the south and clear up north, tbh.

I did disband all my bombers and just kept the fighters.

Rifle corps spam did not help here and that is all I built and lots of them.

[battlevonwar]

The weather then(I would of done away with the Mechs they're about as strong as weak Mnt Corp) and the Micro Build is what got you.

I did everything in my power to not waste 1 PP and I could of done a better job. My damage Cruiser and destroyer, botched invasion of Norway...Some other issues I had in my build along the way I think I could of added another 2 Mechs!

I think also the RAF has to fight in France despite the losses you didn't do that. I would... And sacrifice several Inf Corp there if necessary. See you are looking at the fact the UK has to actually sap Germany pre-Barbarossa. If not then for most of 1941 they are not of much use.

[Flaviusx]

Okay, I'll try this stuff out. Care for a rematch?

[MagicMissile]

Yes a rematch more AARs [:)].

Some random thoughts:

Yes building the Soviet inf armies is annoying as they take 5 turns to arrive and dont get active until turn 6 which is a looong time [:)].

In general these strategic WW2 games I think always had this problem that the Axis usually come earlier and they come with more than historical (including a lot of italians) and the Soviets are not given the tools to resist. I think the Soviets maybe could use a small buff. It is as I have written before that not only do you have to survive 1941 you have to survive in pretty good shape otherwise 1942 might well be the killer year.

My first impression when I looked on the screenshot was that the German army did not look all that big. How big were the German and Soviet army when the war started? How many axis mech units were there?

The weather is of course very important in April and May it can make a huge difference.

I do not believe in mtn corps strat. I think they lack artillery which makes them retreat easier (if I understand it correctly). I still believe inf corps is the way to go. I also think keeping the mech corps but possibly disband some air seems right.

I am also a bit reluctant coming to the idea that the British probably have to commit quite a lot to France it probably can help the Soviets. I just dont like it [:)]. If you dont commit to France then I think the UK have to try to be active with invasions like ComadrejaKorp did againt me. It does at least draw some resources from the east. That is if UK have any money to buy LC [:)].

Thanks for the AAR

/MM

[Flaviusx]

The German army was not particularly large as such but it had plenty of what really mattered: armor. And that includes Italian armor. Mostly it is about timing. This same campaign, had it started in June 22 as historical, would've ended with very nearly historical lines. Clear weather, particularly in the south, is just devastating this early.

The problem is it started in on April 25 and the Axis has two more months to rampage.

It turns out that the Axis doesn't need much infantry in Russia at all. Supply lines? Partisans? Whatever. There was a point when I came close to shutting down all his rail lines, but no cigar.

[Flaviusx]

I'm guessing he had 12-14 mobile corps in the Soviet Union, including Axis minors. What was lacking was infantry. Had things ever slowed down and gotten past the summer, this lack of infantry to cover the line would've become a problem.

[Flaviusx]

Here is one buff I'd like to see for the Sovs: reserve Armies arrive at 35% experience and at whatever assault tech is at.

Having them come in at 30% experience and 39 assault tech is really weaksauce.

For 6 turns this is all you are getting. New construction is so slow.

[ago1000]

ORIGINAL: battlevonwar

I utilized my new Axis Strat, I do not think it can be beat easily Flaviusx, you did well vs it. I believe that it is a strategy will be gamebreaking for the Allies to deal with.(I was inspired by MagicMissile but added some of my own ideas in) Though someone can try to counter it? Not sure how... I can put my AAR in a bit I need to go through my Screenshots though if people are interested in seeing or we can let it remain a secret until? GG

Please do.

[MagicMissile]

Yes that might not be a bad idea those armies are pretty weak.

Another thing I have been thinking maybe Germany have slightly too much oil. I think I have done 11-12 Barbarossas and played against a similar amount now and in only maybe 2 as I recall have I felt any oil constraint maybe saved oil have been down into the 40s 50s when autumn comes and I think only once have I heard any opponent complain about lack of oil. I actually never even check the oil situation I just play [:)].

I think in the 1941 campaign the Germans start with 200 something oil whereas in the 39 campaign the storage is always full when Barbarossa starts. Maybe something to consider [:)].

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: MagicMissile

Yes that might not be a bad idea those armies are pretty weak.

Another thing I have been thinking maybe Germany have slightly too much oil. I think I have done 11-12 Barbarossas and played against a similar amount now and in only maybe 2 as I recall have I felt any oil constraint maybe saved oil have been down into the 40s 50s when autumn comes and I think only once have I heard any opponent complain about lack of oil. I actually never even check the oil situation I just play [:)].

I think in the 1941 campaign the Germans start with 200 something oil whereas in the 39 campaign the storage is always full when Barbarossa starts. Maybe something to consider [:)].

+1 The Axis have too much oil. Historically the Axis had chronic oil shortage problems. But in the game they seem to have ample oil. This is true not only if they build an historical mix of forces, but even if they build a very armour heavy force. And in the game they also tend to use their armour and air for longer campaigning seasons. When the Allies were found to be over building armour units this was dealt with by increasing the oil consumption of their armour. The same should be done for the Axis.

[MagicMissile]

It could be an elegant solution to the problem. If it is a problem that is. So few games and not that much input to go on.

But an idea maybe slighly less oil in the early game and maybe a small buff later in the game which I feel Germany might need but again not sure if they actually do [:)]

/MM

[battlevonwar]

I think the Germans have a slight bit too much oil as well but the problem is in late '42 and into '43 she is a little too weak if the Allies make it that far... Flaviusx Russian defense needs something else I just don't know what it needs... There is another point(I have quite perfected my Axis now after facing you and Sveint) so it's not really fair to him or easy to judge with so few games without maybe 5-10 games what is exactly right.

Historically Russian Partisan bands were not really truly effective or organized in 1941 or 1942. Nearly non existent(later they were a literal army vs that time period) but Axis Oil was pretty much non-existent as well...plus their trucks(they were using horses) Of course in 1942 the Russians were still using 30s tanks in vast numbers.

ORIGINAL: MagicMissile

It could be an elegant solution to the problem. If it is a problem that is. So few games and not that much input to go on.

But an idea maybe slighly less oil in the early game and maybe a small buff later in the game which I feel Germany might need but again not sure if they actually do [:)]

/MM

[battlevonwar]

I have deleted my Photos but on the rematch I will post up. . . I didn't think anyone would be interested in them

[battlevonwar]

Flaviusx, post up a game, a rematch is fine... I would suggest you spam the cheap rifle corp to the front line this time 3-4 deep if you can afford it so if I don't get the Fuhrer Weather I cannot easily smack through. I think you didn't have quite enough of them. Previously Russian Cav was used in places cause they retreat and sap Effectiveness.

I would do away with all the Russian Air Force and forget Finland. Also I would aim to take down 200 points of German Manpower in France(that means RAF and clever counter-attacks) less long-term planning and a little reckless and whatever else you have in the bag.

Too much oil, too strong in 41 but by late '42 and into '43 MM handed me my Axis...but I got a lot better. I really utilize my oil perfectly and I had 15 Armor and Mechs in total? So a small army yes but who needs a big one when they destroy so many Red Ones? You had Anti-Tank? I would go that route and delay as much as possible diversionary invasions on the Axis forcing them to draw a couple of Armored/Mechs off. Whatever it takes if you lose 200 UK Manpower/200 Air which you lost only a fraction of that. Though you have to make me fight for where-ever. This is my opinion...

I spent 15-20 games perfecting Axis Barbarossa strat and when I have come back and the patches I have had time. It's only natural too that you should feel there is an imbalance I am certain you haven't run a Russian Defense that much but you have all our advice. I would be interested in seeing if the Russians can hold.

P.S. Also the Russians have to cover their rivers, leave paths of retreat...The weather bad again like May Rains could of made our game less terrible for the Red Army but we can't see that now(I could of built 5 Infantry Corp for Winter) I just didn't need to. So...I wasn't that weak*plus I lost 2 Mechs as I said* in wasteful spending I will not repeat this error !!!

[Flaviusx]

If you are doing Axis, you need to put up the game and I will accept it. Same PW as before?

[battlevonwar]

Yup same PW,(also PM MM for his Russian Build Flavius as my advice may be useless, unless you got a better one in mind)