Basic Artillery Mod . . .

[stockwellpete]

Something odd has happened now. I made the changes as above and the game seemed to be OK, but no Convoys are running and no Mobilisations are happening. When I changed the Mountain hexes to Depression hexes I got a message saying "Some Scripts need to be updated". I didn't know what that involved so I just clicked "Yes". The terrain changes have happened in the game but perhaps I needed to do something else? Any ideas?

[BillRunacre]

Saying NO would have been the right thing to have done.

Changing the terrain meant that the scripts needed to be recompiled, as otherwise any affected scripts won't fire.

I would recommend opening the campaign up again in the Editor, going to Campaign -> Edit Event Scripts and pressing Update*

You might also need to do this with the AI events, by going to Campaign -> Edit Event Scripts and pressing Update*

[stockwellpete]

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Saying NO would have been the right thing to have done.

Changing the terrain meant that the scripts needed to be recompiled, as otherwise any affected scripts won't fire.

I would recommend opening the campaign up again in the Editor, going to Campaign -> Edit Event Scripts and pressing Update*

You might also need to do this with the AI events, by going to Campaign -> Edit Event Scripts and pressing Update*

Thanks Bill. It seems to have worked OK. The only oddity is that hex 166,84 seems to have declared independence from Germany! It is now an encircled neutral hex. Not a problem yet where it is, at least.

[stockwellpete]

I have got another "FAILED store: Permission denied" message. Uninstalled and Re-installed the game to no avail. Very frustrating. Also had a second hex 166,84 which was showing as Neutral in the UK. I am going to delete that version of the Mod and start again in case something is corrupted somewhere.

What was interesting while it lasted was the AI behaviour as Italy in 1915. It made no attempt to attack Trento (now a Fortified Town) at all and did not even move next to it. I had the three mountain hexes in the Alto Adige as "High Mountains" rather than making do with Impassable terrain (Desert) and the AI did not go onto those either. It did still try to reach Salzburg via hex 172,89 so that will have to be made High Mountains too in my new effort.

[stockwellpete]

I have now removed the port from Sedd El Bahr and swapped Stuttgart and Mulhausen round as Fortified Towns. What I want to do next is slow down the Italian mobilisation a bit. What is the best way to do that? If I go into the Deployment Queue and reduce the number of Strength points for the first 5 or 6 units in the list there, that should probably do the trick, shouldn't it?

[BillRunacre]

Italy's unit arrive either in the Production Queue, or via UNIT script, and what you're suggesting would make a difference there. Either that or delaying/removing some of the units.

[stockwellpete]

Over the next day or so I am going to put in this post the current modifications that I am using for SP. It will probably take 3 or 4 edits to complete the process.

1) Research

Trench Warfare Tech
- only Germany has maximum level of 5, everyone else has maximum of 4. Germany max chits at the same time is 3, everyone else is 2.

This is to simulate the far better German trench systems in the war and the fact that on the Western Front they were very often located on ridges forcing the Entente to attack uphill.

Infantry Warfare Tech
- only Germany has maximum level of 4, everyone else has a maximum of 3. Max chits at the same time is 2 for everyone.

This represents superior German infantry doctrine, particularly from 1916 onwards, defence in depth, use of stormtroopers etc.

Gas/shell Production Tech
- maximum chits at any one time is 2 for everyone.

The idea here is to slow shell production down a bit as initial increase in manufacture of shells in 1915/6 was hampered by poor quality control (high % of "duds").

Artillery Weapons Tech
- Maximum level of 1 for all powers, maximum number of chits at any one time is 1 for everyone. Cost increased for this Tech advance to 150 MPP's.

Artillery can de-entrench from the start of the war to represent lethality of these guns in 1914. Only 1 level of Tech available to represent changes in artillery doctrine during the course of the war e.g. flash spotting, creeping barrages etc.


2) Terrain

Montenegro
Hex 183,99 north west of Cetinje changed from hill to mountain
Hex 184,99 north of Cetinje changed from mountain to high mountain (Mount Lovcen)

Railway removed between Sarajevo, Mostar, Split and Cetinje

Austria
Hexes 171,89 - 171,88 - 172,89 changed from mountain to high mountain (Alto Adige)
Hexes 175,88 - 174,88 - 174,87 changed from mountain to high mountain (Austrian Alps)

Turkey
Sedd El Bahr changed to Settlement at 197,105; port removed completely (did not exist)

Caucasus Mountains hexes 228,97 - 229,97 - 230,98 - 231,98 - 233,98 - 233,99 - 234,99 - 235,99 - 236,100 - 237,100 - 235,105 - 234,105 - 133,106 (Mt Ararat) - 227,104 - 228,104 - 227,106 - 227,107 - 228,107 all changed from mountain to high mountain

Similarly 217,109 - 218,109 - 217,110 - 218,110, 219,109 (all Taurus Mtns) and 212,113 - 211,112 -205,112


3) Artillery

Rebalancing of Artillery with Artillery units now representing just the heaviest guns and mortars (smaller field guns included in Infantry Corps units) to avoid "double-counting" of artillery.

Entente maximums
UK 2, France 2, Italy 1, Russia 2, USA 1

Central Power maximums
Germany 4, Austria-Hungary 2, Ottoman Turkey 1

Disable events that give extra Artillery to Russia in the Caucasus and the UK in Palestine/Mesopotamia.


4) House Rules
Operating must finish on a railway line
Newly mobilised/refitted units must enter map on a city/town hex

I think that's the lot at the moment.[:)]

[Taxman66]

At first glance this looks like a rather large CP boost (or rather a big Entente Nerf).

Perhaps given your rationalizations, the UK should get a leg up in the Tank Techs.
France should get something as well.

[stockwellpete]

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

At first glance this looks like a rather large CP boost (or rather a big Entente Nerf).

Perhaps given your rationalizations, the UK should get a leg up in the Tank Techs.
France should get something as well.

Yes. So far I have mainly played as the Central Powers in SP, but I have yet to win the big campaign outright. The best I have done is to get a stalemate. I have won as the Entente twice out of 5 or 6 attempts. I usually play at the middle Veteran setting.

The changes so far do favour the Central Powers, but I have made them following my own (still quite limited) historical research. I believe that later war German infantry doctrine (defence in depth) was qualitatively superior to anything the Entente did and I do not think the Entente massively outgunned the Central Powers in terms of artillery, particularly when you factor in the high proportion of faulty shells fired in 1915/6. German trench defences were far superior to anybody elses as well.

I should also point out that my own "house rules" do make things a bit tougher for me and once I realise that the AI is repeatedly falling for the same thing then I stop doing it (e.g. laying mines off the German coast and then sinking their destroyers and light cruisers that come across to investigate). Some of these changes are still in the testing phase. For example, I could increase German Artillery to 5 and France to 3. The main object is to give myself a better game against the AI.

[shri]

So, based on my reading i would suggest some more changes-

Research-
Treches - Austria, Turks, Russia, Italy and minors restricted to level 3 only. They never had enough cement to build solid trenchlines like German ones on the Western front.

Infantry - Austria, Turks, Russia, Italy and minors restricted to level 2 only. Their infantry quality progressively declined. By 1917 the German corps were running rings around minor/Russian armies. (Say 50k vs 100k resulting in wins).
OTOH, The Brits should get level 4 for their Canadian and Anzac Corps (1 corp each of Canadians and Anzacs) as they were used for breakthrough repeatedly. (Some special case event maybe which should cost a month and maybe 200 MPP to refit these 2 corps in England and then have to re-transport them back to the field)


Gas Production - Again same, Austria, Turks, Russia, Italy and minors restricted to level 1 only.


Artillery - Germany, UK, France should get level 2, not even US as it used mainly British guns.
The shell shortages for the German minors (inc. Austria was so much that they found it difficult), the Germans captured over a million shells and 1000 guns in the Mackensen offensive of 1915 from Russia and distributed them to their allies, this allowed them to sustain for 2 years.


Number of Heavy guns- Restrict Austria and Russia to only 1 heavy gun and increase 1 each for UK and Germany.


By late 1918 the German and British artillery were almost equal. The british had more guns per mile (due to lesser distance) and the Germans had bruchmuller tactics (a combination of creeping barrage and rolling fire which proved devastating when used properly) combined with von Lossen tactics (defense in depth with lots of booby traps) and Hutier tactics (Stormtroopers and quick poking attacks)


Finally, Tanks - I agree with Taxman that the UK and France should get a boost in tank techs, maybe a late 1916 event costing say 200/300 MPP giving 1 level of boost with 1 more chit invested or something?

[shri]

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

I have finished the first game against the AI with the Mod and I feel overall that it gave a good game. Balancing German with British/French artillery numbers on the Western Front meant that front remained deadlocked right up to the end of 1918, even though the Entente had about 6 rows of units lined up against the Germans' two rows. The USA did not enter the war and would have been superfluous even if they had. With the range of artillery units increased to 3 hexes there were half a dozen examples of counter-battery fire in the game, which was also a plus as it hardly ever happens in the vanilla game.

My next variation will leave Artillery units as in the vanilla game, except that the numbers of artillery units will be balanced so Germany has parity with Britain and France. Artillery units will represent both heavier guns and lighter field artillery in this variation. Instead, Infantry and Cavalry Corps will lose their ability to de-entrench enemy units when they attack them.

I have decided not to pursue this second option, basically because it will be a lot more difficult to balance. So I am going to stick with my first idea of having artillery units just representing the ability of the various combatant nations to concentrate their heavier guns.

I have also found how to adjust scripts at the start of a game and so the following events DE129, DE135 and DE415 will be disabled before I start a game in future. These are the events that allow the British to deploy (heavy) artillery in Egypt and Iraq and the Russians to deploy (heavy) artillery in the Caucasus.

Regarding the Alpine front, I am going to try it with 3 hexes as impassable terrain - 170,89 171,89 and 170,90. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be impassable mountains to use in the editor so I have used the impassable desert (depression) image instead. It doesn't look great but it will serve my purposes for now which is to stop the AI trying to reach Salzburg across the mountains every game.

Another issue that I want to address is the late game problem of the Entente having about 6 rows of units on the Western Front, which renders USA entry into the war completely superfluous. The Editor gives the following Build limits for Corps and then Detachments . . .

UK 24 + 8
France 24 + 6
Italy 15 + 6
Serbia 5 + 3
Russia 44 + 8
USA 24 + 4
Germany 50 + 12
Austria-Hungary 24 + 10
Ottoman Turkey 22 + 15
Bulgaria (need to look them up in a minute)

I am not quite sure how to scale this down but perhaps a 25% cut across the board might be in the right sort of area? So UK would be 18 + 6 instead of 24 + 8. France would be 18 + 5 (if I round up fractions of units) and Russia 33 + 6. Germany would be 38 + 9 and A-H 18 + 8. That might be OK as a starting point. When I play as Central Powers against the AI I never get near the Infantry Corp maximum for Germany anyway.

The other areas that I may also look at are . . .
i) does Italy mobilise too quickly?
ii) should there be impassable mountain hexes in the Caucasus?
iii) can I make Maritime Bombers/Seaplanes much less effective attacking against submarines
iv) should tanks and cavalry go up mountain hexes without a road in them?
v) is it possible to add in the effect of mutinies, Spanish flu, war weariness etc in the later game?

And I have I have just one question if anyone can help me. In the Editor there is a box that it ticked called "Reformable". What is this please? Does it refer to the facility to replace "destroyed" units like Infantry Corps for 135 MPP's rather than paying full cost 225 MPP's? So, if I untick it then I will always have to pay full price to refit a badly damaged unit? Doing this might help with the "6 rows of units" phenomenon in the later game.

We can pick up total manpower mobilised, divide it by 3 and put an average of 50k per corps to arrive at the following figures -
Serbia - 3
Bulgaria - 3
Belgium - 2
Monte- 1
Albania - 0
Lux- 0
Ottomans - 20
US & Italy - 26
UK/France/Austria - 52
Russia - 75
Germany - 87

However this would be too much, also doesn't take into account HQs and Detachments so can be further reduced by 20%, though Minors need to have 2 magic corps each added (which are removed from majors), giving -

Serbia - 5
Bulgaria - 5
Belgium - 3
Monte- 1
Albania - 0
Lux- 0
Ottomans - 16
US & Italy - 20
UK/France/Austria - 39 (reduced 2 for Serbia/Belgium/Monte)
Russia - 60
Germany - 68 (reduced 2 for Bulgaria)

[stockwellpete]

ORIGINAL: shri

So, based on my reading i would suggest some more changes-

Research-
Treches - Austria, Turks, Russia, Italy and minors restricted to level 3 only. They never had enough cement to build solid trenchlines like German ones on the Western front.

Infantry - Austria, Turks, Russia, Italy and minors restricted to level 2 only. Their infantry quality progressively declined. By 1917 the German corps were running rings around minor/Russian armies. (Say 50k vs 100k resulting in wins).
OTOH, The Brits should get level 4 for their Canadian and Anzac Corps (1 corp each of Canadians and Anzacs) as they were used for breakthrough repeatedly. (Some special case event maybe which should cost a month and maybe 200 MPP to refit these 2 corps in England and then have to re-transport them back to the field)


Gas Production - Again same, Austria, Turks, Russia, Italy and minors restricted to level 1 only.


Artillery - Germany, UK, France should get level 2, not even US as it used mainly British guns.
The shell shortages for the German minors (inc. Austria was so much that they found it difficult), the Germans captured over a million shells and 1000 guns in the Mackensen offensive of 1915 from Russia and distributed them to their allies, this allowed them to sustain for 2 years.


Number of Heavy guns- Restrict Austria and Russia to only 1 heavy gun and increase 1 each for UK and Germany.


By late 1918 the German and British artillery were almost equal. The british had more guns per mile (due to lesser distance) and the Germans had bruchmuller tactics (a combination of creeping barrage and rolling fire which proved devastating when used properly) combined with von Lossen tactics (defense in depth with lots of booby traps) and Hutier tactics (Stormtroopers and quick poking attacks)


Finally, Tanks - I agree with Taxman that the UK and France should get a boost in tank techs, maybe a late 1916 event costing say 200/300 MPP giving 1 level of boost with 1 more chit invested or something?

Thanks for these suggestions, shri. I will add the ones that just involves me changing numbers in boxes. As for writing new scripts for events, I am afraid that I do not know how to do that at the moment.

With the Artillery Tech, there is only 1 level to research in my mod (cost 150 MPP's) and artillery can de-entrench from the start of the game, so it sounds as if you are suggesting that only UK, France and Germany should be able to research this extra level?

Edit: Added for next game against AI

Research
Trenches - Austria, Turks, Russia, Italy and minors restricted to level 3 only.

Infantry - Austria, Turks, Russia, Italy and minors restricted to level 2 only.

Gas/Shell Production - Austria, Turks, Russia, Italy and minors restricted to level 1 only.

Artillery updated

Rebalancing of Artillery with Artillery units now representing just the heaviest guns and mortars (smaller field guns included in Infantry Corps units) to avoid "double-counting" of artillery.

Entente maximums
UK 3, France 2, Italy 1, Russia 1, USA 1

Central Power maximums
Germany 5, Austria-Hungary 1, Ottoman Turkey 1

Disable events that give extra Artillery to Russia in the Caucasus and the UK in Palestine/Mesopotamia.

Tanks
UK and France start with Level 1 Tech for Armoured Warfare.

Terrain
High Mountains now impassable (Salzburg now virtually impossible to get to from Italy unless going via Vienna![:)])
Mountains transport penalty increased from 2 to 3
Marsh transport penalty increased from 1 to 2.

[stockwellpete]

ORIGINAL: shri

We can pick up total manpower mobilised, divide it by 3 and put an average of 50k per corps to arrive at the following figures -
Serbia - 3
Bulgaria - 3
Belgium - 2
Monte- 1
Albania - 0
Lux- 0
Ottomans - 20
US & Italy - 26
UK/France/Austria - 52
Russia - 75
Germany - 87

However this would be too much, also doesn't take into account HQs and Detachments so can be further reduced by 20%, though Minors need to have 2 magic corps each added (which are removed from majors), giving -

Serbia - 5
Bulgaria - 5
Belgium - 3
Monte- 1
Albania - 0
Lux- 0
Ottomans - 16
US & Italy - 20
UK/France/Austria - 39 (reduced 2 for Serbia/Belgium/Monte)
Russia - 60
Germany - 68 (reduced 2 for Bulgaria)

If we look in the editor at the Unit Build Data, it has the "Build Limits" listed for each nation. What do these numbers represent? The maximum number of units of each type a nation can build including those that they start the war with? Or what they can build in addition to the ones they start the war with?

[Chernobyl]

They represent maximums that you can build including starting. HOWEVER if you build up to the maximum (pay MPP to order them in the build queue, they don't need to be on the map yet) and you do this early enough that it's BEFORE any EVENT/DECISION which spawns an artillery, then you get everything you bought and started with PLUS whatever event/decision artillery spawns. UK and Russia can go over their maximum artillery by exploiting this. Not sure about France. Germany Austria and Ottomans have no such event which spawns and artillery so they can't do it.

I say any mod that takes balancing the number of artillery per nation/alliance seriously needs to address this strategy/exploit.

[stockwellpete]

ORIGINAL: Chernobyl

They represent maximums that you can build including starting. HOWEVER if you build up to the maximum (pay MPP to order them in the build queue, they don't need to be on the map yet) and you do this early enough that it's BEFORE any EVENT/DECISION which spawns an artillery, then you get everything you bought and started with PLUS whatever event/decision artillery spawns. UK and Russia can go over their maximum artillery by exploiting this. Not sure about France. Germany Austria and Ottomans have no such event which spawns and artillery so they can't do it.

I say any mod that takes balancing the number of artillery per nation/alliance seriously needs to address this strategy/exploit.

I was not aware of this exploit and I have absolutely no idea how to deal with it, I'm afraid.

[stockwellpete]

I finished my latest game against the AI with the Mod, playing at Veteran default level. I got a Major Victory with the Central Powers in March 1920 after bludgeoning France into surrender.

A number of things that I tried out in the mod did not work too well. Increasing the cost of moving in Mountain hexes from 2 to 3 stymied certain areas of the map. Not even Mountain Corps were able to access some Mountain hexes, so that change has been cancelled. Making the hexes I had designated "High Mountains" as impassable did work OK and will be retained. I am going to try increasing the cost of crossing major rivers from 1 to 2 in the next game. Marshes will also revert to costing 1 rather than 2 as it hardly has any effect in the game. I may revisit marshes again in the future. A couple of the Impassable Mountain hexes also blocked roads so they have been changed back to Mountain hexes.

Other experiments turned out better. The "house rule" of Operating moves having to finish on a railway line worked very well. The removal of the Dalmatian railway also made the area around Cetinje suitably remote and difficult. The "house rule" of having to place new, or re-fitted, units on a town centre when they join the war also worked very well.

For the next game I am going to restrict the maximum number of research chits at any one time to 2 for all categories that allow 3 at the moment. Artillery shell research, which I had reduced to 1 chit in my last game (it was OK), will be increased back to 2 chits for UK, France and Germany only at any one time. I am also going to reduce the overall Tech Advance level to 1 for Ground Attack Weapons and Heavy Bombers, which I believe to be over-powered in the game.

The last change is to start whittling down the Build Limits for all countries to begin to try and address "late game MPP bloat". I am not sure how successful just reducing the number of units available will be, but it might help a bit. To start with all countries will lose 1xHQ and 4xInfantry Corps, except Italy which will lose 3xInfantry Corps and Serbia, which will not lose anything at all.