FITE2 EARLY START Loveman2 vs thomasharvey

[thomasharvey]

T35 October 19, 1941. Both sides are barely moving in the mud. The Soviets are pushing towards Kharkov to take it back.

[thomasharvey]

T35 October 19, 1941 At the Roslavl pocket the Soviets are pushing the northern pincer back.

[thomasharvey]

T35 October 19, 1941 Roslavl pocket closer view.

[fogger]

Tom, there would appear to be at least 2 PzGren divisions, 2 SS divisions, 1 Cav division plus 2 Inf divisions your southern flank and you are not showing any reserves. Do you think you can close the pocket around the 4(?) Bn's on the northern flank and then create a 2nd pocket and move reserves south before the snow?

[thomasharvey]

Hi Fogger

Unfortunately my plans for the mud offensives have been scrapped. I estimate more than 50% of my units can not move due to reorganization. If you look closely you can see the orange band across many of the units showing. It is clearly an increase in that condition over the better weather turns. So I just look to move the front a few hexes that is adjacent to my active rail lines. Movement in mud is very restricted as well. The Germans have the same problem of course.

My southern front has next to nothing. Many units are still stuck deep in the rear with the mud keeping them from clearing a path for new units to even appear. Rail movement is cut in half on distance as well.

I don't think I will encircle many German units. However, one exception was the encirclement and destruction of an entire Panzer regiment that had 200 tanks in the northern pincer I have been pushing back. The panzer probably could not move at all. It was in slow motion. You can see it in post 19 cut off. It was later destroyed when out of supply.

Tom

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: thomasharvey
Rail movement is cut in half on distance as well.

[&:] Why? I can understand the Germans. But the Soviets?

[fogger]

snow covering the tracks and thus reducing the speed of the train? Just a guess

[Lobster]

Snow can cause derailments but only under certain conditions. It has to sit for a few days. It has to be compacted. It can get between points in a switch and become iced. If it sits for a few days it becomes compacted. The engine will run up over the compacted snow and become separated from the track. Considering the work the Soviet rails were experiencing this probably happened but not often enough to force them to reduce rail by half. And a 70+ ton 0-10-0 never went very fast anyway. Too unstable at speeds over 50mph.

The Germans did have problems because their locomotives were not insulated and they lost steam pressure because of that.

Anyway, this is the first time I've seen anyone reduce rail because of winter. Was just curious about the logic. [;)]

[thomasharvey]

The reduction in rail movement is a result of increasing ZOC cost to 200 in mud. This cuts movement of a unit by half BEFORE the unit moves. That results in rail movement cut also by half since it is based on the movement of the unit. These 4 screen shots show a Soviet unit that has not moved in many turns. The mud effects start on turn 33. The screen shots show the unit on turn 32 having movement of 25 and a rail movement of 277. On turn 37 it has movement of 12 and rail movement of 138.

A mud hex costs an additional +2 for foot movement and +3 for all others. You can see many more mud hexes in the screen shots after the mud starts.

In reality unless a mud slide covers the rails, mud has no effect on rail traffic.

[thomasharvey]

Here is rail movement available on turn 32 for the same unit.

[thomasharvey]

Here is the same unit that has not moved on Turn 37 with mud conditions present.

[thomasharvey]

Here is the same unit, again having not moved, showing rail movement during this mud turn.

[Lobster]

Thank you for the explanation. [&o]

[thomasharvey]

T41 11/9/41 The end of the last mud turn shows nearly no change to the fronts.

[thomasharvey]

T441 11/9/41 Leningrad is nearly the same after the mud.

[thomasharvey]

T41 11/9/41 The Roslavl pocket is slightly different. His northern pincer has been pushed north a few hexes. This should be a fight during his Operation Typhoon.

[thomasharvey]

T41 11/9/41 Here is the Kharkov front showing no change except 2 of the 3 hexes of the city have been retaken. I am sure the Germans will again try to subdue Kharkov.

[thomasharvey]

T43 11/16/41 The Germans are moving west. They do not want to engage in winter warfare. Soviet scouts are searching for them as they retreat.

Leningrad is unchanged however.

[thomasharvey]

T46 November 26th 1941. Here is the main front just before the start of the Soviet 41 winter offensive.
The Axis has formed a line which I will try to destroy.

[thomasharvey]

T46 11/26/41 Here is a closer view in front of Moscow which is closer to Smolensk now. One thing that is new, notice the Soviet aircraft in the shot. I have brought them all forward all along the fronts to join in the offensive.