What's the best way to take on a Tiger??

Marek Tucan · Post by **Marek Tucan** » Sat May 24, 2003 1:21 am

I have the 2.0 version of SPWAW and in it (not sure if in the others) the ultimate killer is .50 browning M2HB - it usually doesn't take too long to get a 'suspension disabled' hit and then suppress the tank and the crew will bail out, kill crew... Worked well in the 'tragic stand' scenario, Pz-IVs and Panthers made me bigger trouble than both Tigers and KT's...

Capt. Pixel · Post by **Capt. Pixel** » Sat May 24, 2003 2:07 am

Originally posted by Marek Tucan
I have the 2.0 version of SPWAW and in it (not sure if in the others) the ultimate killer is .50 browning M2HB - it usually doesn't take too long to get a 'suspension disabled' hit and then suppress the tank and the crew will bail out, kill crew... Worked well in the 'tragic stand' scenario, Pz-IVs and Panthers made me bigger trouble than both Tigers and KT's...

This is a good point. There are many ways in this game to reduce an individual vehicle's usefulness.

Direct fire can yield results of 'Immobilized' or 'Main Gun Destroyed' et al. And even if the result isn't that dramatic, the vehicle has to 'Button Up'. This immediately reduces his hit chance in Op Fire. Anybody that can hit the target might be able to get that minimal effect. That's good.

Continuous shelling from artillery can put and keep individual vehicles in a disrupted state. This reduces the rate and accuracy of Op fire/Direct Fire and might reduce the unit's movement or cause retreat. That's good, too.

Small caliber pieces are particularly good at this. A 60mm Mortar can pound the same hex accurately 7 or 8 shells a round. Most 75-81mm can pound within 1 hex accurately. Whoever occupies those target hexes is bound to get rattled.

Take out his bridges and force him to wade those big, heavy tanks across the streams. Maybe he'll get immobilized for lack of a bridge. Couldn't hurt you, but it'll make his day bad.

Assume your opponent's luck is no better than yours. He's suffering as many breakdowns, jammed guns and thrown treads as you are. :rolleyes: But the further they move, the more times they have to fire their weapons, they better chance they'll break something.

Lots of small AC vs Tigers keeping maximum range and drawing fire can make a platoon of Tigers go nuts, and expend their Op Fire (and ammunition) with little chance of actually hitting and destroying anything. Just don't get close.

A JagdTiger facing his retreat hex with his butt to a hill, immobilized, is not much to be feared. Figure out a way to get him in that position. Then waste him from his softest side.

I know this is possible, 'cause it happens to me all the time.

Raskolnikov · Post by **Raskolnikov** » Sat May 24, 2003 3:43 am

The best way to take out Tigers has to be from the air.

(As H2H)
Tiger 1E Top AV: 15
Tiger 1H Top AV: 40

(As 7.1)
Tiger 1E Early AV: 25
Tiger 1E Late AV: 40

(As 7.1)
Aircraft Weapon: Warhead/Penetration
Bombs:
250lb: 20/75
500lb: 21/100
Rockets:
82mm: 6/50
132mm: 8/72
Cannon:
30mm: 2/35
37mm: 2/40

Using Western Allies, a P47 is probably the best bet. For Soviet, the Il2 is good. The Il2M3 with 4x 132mm Rockets is even better. Even if you don't score a kill, incoming air attack will cause serious suppression. This is often a tactic I use against those bloody SO KV tanks; the air strike will button/rout them, allowing me to safely close the distance necessary to penetrate their armour... and if the aircraft gets the kill, well, that's fine by me.

If facing a Tiger-lover take as much airpower as you can.

Of course, if you don't have any air sections...

run.

Rask.

stevemk1a · Post by **stevemk1a** » Sat May 24, 2003 5:10 am

On a related note, has anyone developed any tricks for dealing with the Panther Uhu ... that beast is picking my guys off right through smoke and all I can do is plot arty and airstrikes where I think they are. They are the ultimate overwatch weapon !

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Sat May 24, 2003 8:09 am

Modify OOB's to show accurate vision range. I recall some threads on this--basically it's night vision range is "10" or something, but that "10" was also a debugging code that meant infinite night vision with see-through-smoke capacity.

Otherwise, just modify the tactics above. They are an superior weapon in many respects. But they are still steel, on track, pilotted by mere mortals. Suggest a well-timed mass ambush, especially from behind hills. Until that is possible, do not engage them.

LordCucumber · Post by **LordCucumber** » Sat May 24, 2003 5:24 pm

When taking on a Tiger expect losses no matter how you try it. IN fact, the only reason the allies could top the Tiger's performance on the battlefield was OFF the battlefield: they simply outproduced them. For every Tiger built there were several M4's rolling of the production line. Needless to say the M4's took severe casualties in battles against Tigers, even if they surprised them! Ingame I would say: kill any observers/supporters on foot by using arty with extreme prejudice, let the tanks roll by your M4 positions, and fill those engine blocks with LEAD. Sure you'll lose some M4s, but stopping the Tigers is your main goal, and thus you can have certain 'acceptable' losses.

About smoke: I once tricked the PC by dropping smoke on the edge of a field where there were NO units. He rushed some units to the spot (not sure if this was a reaction to, but it was a nice diversion anyway). Might work in PBEM too. Tis thru trickery and deception that one might win a conflict...

Capt. Pixel · Post by **Capt. Pixel** » Sat May 24, 2003 7:45 pm

Originally posted by Cyricist
...Tis thru trickery and deception that one might win a conflict...

Yep!

Marek Tucan · Post by **Marek Tucan** » Sat May 24, 2003 10:55 pm

Originally posted by Cyricist
When taking on a Tiger expect losses no matter how you try it. IN fact, the only reason the allies could top the Tiger's performance on the battlefield was OFF the battlefield: they simply outproduced them. For every Tiger built there were several M4's rolling of the production line. Needless to say the M4's took severe casualties in battles against Tigers, even if they surprised them! Ingame I would say: kill any observers/supporters on foot by using arty with extreme prejudice, let the tanks roll by your M4 positions, and fill those engine blocks with LEAD. Sure you'll lose some M4s, but stopping the Tigers is your main goal, and thus you can have certain 'acceptable' losses.
...

Yes,I do expect loses fighting with ANY enemy... For the Tigers I like to have some good anti-armor weapon still at hand, and if it is SP, it is better... And if I cannot get a good AT weapon, I use large calibers for the direct fire - Shermans 105, even the Priests, 105mm howitzers, 122mm howitzers (I have added to my oob also the 122mm field gun A-19) and 152mm howitzers (I have made some calculations - rather primitive ones, based on the battlefield.ru AP formula and on the SP values - some guns got a really bigger punch now, for the AP round for ML-20 howitzer the result was about 190mm at a pointblank range, for the D-1 (Obrazca 1943, I think) it was 'olny' 170mm)... And flamethrowers, bazookas, PIATs, RPG-3s...

And while I'm speaking about my modifications, I have added a HE kill to PTRD rifle and use it also as the sniping weapon:)

Buzzard45 · Post by **Buzzard45** » Tue May 27, 2003 8:06 am

Okay now how about a SturmTiger that fire into the smoke hex and blasts your infantry in behind it? How can you catch it on the pop up to shoot phase without wasting OP fire on the rotten little kubelwagons that run across the field?

Any secrets on how to move an ATG into position without it being seen and blasted by every 42HMG for 25 hexes?

LordCucumber · Post by **LordCucumber** » Tue May 27, 2003 7:25 pm

Hide the ATGs in woodland or similar area and wait for the Tigers to pass by then blast them in the rear?

arethusa · Post by **arethusa** » Tue May 27, 2003 8:05 pm

Sometimes if you move slow enough or you have enough other things going on to distract the Tiger, you could even move the ATG up close enough to a weak side without being detected.

Buzzard45 · Post by **Buzzard45** » Tue May 27, 2003 9:47 pm

Originally posted by Cyricist
Hide the ATGs in woodland or similar area and wait for the Tigers to pass by then blast them in the rear?

AH yes. Patience Grasshopper.

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Wed May 28, 2003 3:31 am

Originally posted by Buzzard45
Any secrets on how to move an ATG into position without it being seen and blasted by every 42HMG for 25 hexes?

Options:

A.) Suppress the enemy MG's with everything you've got. Use profilaftic fire (fire on suspected positions) if you have to.

B.) Make them come to you. Master Sun calls this meeting emptiness with fullness.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Wed May 28, 2003 3:41 am

Sometimes, you just have to keep moving up and back until the AT Gun makes his move and isn't spotted.

Ex. I moved an AT Gun right behind a hill with an HT, then I took several turns moving the AT Gun the one hex to the top of the hill. If it was spotted, I rescued it with the HT and tried again the next turn until I made the move without being spotted.

LordCucumber · Post by **LordCucumber** » Wed May 28, 2003 3:47 am

Originally posted by Irinami

B.) Make them come to you. Master Sun calls this meeting emptiness with fullness.

Ah.. another student of the Art of War.. That's more or less what I was referring to: fight on YOUR terms, thus lure the enemy to YOU instead of taking the fight to him if it is not advantageous. Good thinking!

o4r · Post by **o4r** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 10:42 pm

What make Tiger good is it long range gun. Smoke it and blast it with artillery. Any T-34 within 3 hexes range is capable of taking it out. KV-2 or any 152 close assualt gun is good enough to give it hell.

STEELER13 · Post by **STEELER13** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:58 pm

[FONT=arial]YO ALL,
Very good advice here, but missing one vital factor...mobility. Tigers moving with infantry, move slow. If on the defense, as it sounds, do as the Russians did...a flexible defense, fire, retreat, fire, retreat, usually from different directions. DO NOT aim at the tiger(why waste shots) but eliminate the supporting troops. Then channel the tigers into your own killing ground(reverse slope is best in my opinion).
If attacking, again, mobility is best. Strike where the Tigers aren't(i.e. the weakest position), bypass the Tigers and go for rear objectives, make the Tigers move to you, on your grounds.
When you are going for the kill, suppress with small arms. You won't damage or rout, but you do button and reduce LOS for the Tiger.

Good Luck![/FONT]

gainiac · Post by **gainiac** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 11:28 am

I'm not afraid of Tigers, they're quite easy to take out if you coordinate the effort.

First off, when I spot a Tiger with my scouts he's already dead, it's only a matter of time.

Fact is when I spot a Tiger I get excited, not scared, because nothing is more fun than blowing up big kats that are unaware.

You need to determine where he's moving to, if he's moving, and set up an ambush.

That's the gist of it.

I never think of my forces in terms of seperate entities such as armor, infantry, artillery.............

You need to think of them as a multifaceted whole whose function is determined by their composition.

My recon sections typically consist of scouts, an FO, with jeeps a TD of some sort, and a medium tank for general support........

If I find a big cat with my scouts I determine his path of ingress and set up ambush with my TD, along with an arty barrage to button him up prior to me taking the shot.

I NEVER shoot at a "READY" Kat, you gotta button them first.....

If the kitty isn't moving the operation becomes a little more delicate because then you need to go to him.

Suppression via well spotted artillery will always be the key to victory when hunting big kats.

Above all you must be patient and if you need to approach the kitty do so with infantry from cover.

Remember that if a big kitty is giving you problems from a good overwatch position all you need to do is drop smoke on him.

88's aren't much good if they can't see anything..............

I don't see what all the hoopla is about 88's anyway, I find the American 90mm AA gun to be quite suitable in the same roll.......Punches holes in the biggest of kats while my M4's plug the IV's in their flanks...................

It's all about Recon, If you know where your enemy is and he isn't aware you've won the fight.

Martin:D

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:11 pm

Originally posted by gainiac
It's all about Recon, If you know where your enemy is and he isn't aware you've won the fight.

Easy to say since the German recon/spotting ability blows @ss in general in SP:WAW :rolleyes:

MOTHER · Post by **MOTHER** » Fri Jul 04, 2003 4:48 pm

Tigers ,just give em to me!
I can always immobilize one or five when I drive them.GRRRRR.

What's the best way to take on a Tiger??

Panther Uhu

Great Ideas

Re: Great Ideas

Re: Re: Great Ideas

Popping Tigers...........

Re: Popping Tigers...........

terrain