Taming the Tiger or Slaying the Bear......loki100 (Axis) vs Speedy (SU)

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T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by loki100 »

T4 – 13 July 1941

So lets review the bad things the Soviets did shall we?

Well they have isolated 5 units, so that is more than last turn

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They made some of my Pzrs retreat. - they also bombed that regiment.

The net effect is I already have the equivalent of 2 Pzr divisions that need to refit as they are below 50% TOE. This is not an immediate effect but this will slowly worsen simply with attrition and if they fall too low they are at risk of routing or even shattering.

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Generally clear evidence of a bias against Rumanians – half their attacks were on my noble allies.

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They also (and I think this just adds to the evidence of bias – tried to bomb Ploesti. Various small farms in eastern Rumania report being attacked by unidentified planes – possibly even by non-existent planes.

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So there you are – substantial evidence of Soviet malfeasance ... now for some retribution?

AGN picks up speed, frustrating to have done so little last turn but most of the mobile formations had 40+ MP this turn. Took Pskov (and it will be part of the rail system next turn). LVI Pzr made a decent hole in the Soviet lines to the east. Not shown but clearing out the Estonian islands – that'll secure the sea lanes to Riga.

LVII Pzr did go for Velikie Luki – attempt to take it failed but my motorised formations are nicely placed despite the dire terrain. I'm still not sure this is a wise choice but can persist, commit that corps with 4 PG or use it at Smolensk.

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Rest of 3 PG had a bit of a break while infantry filled out the front lines.

2 PG took what was on offer – the Soviets had pulled back substantially and I'm in behind Smolensk. Have little doubt those regiments will be dislodged but that is secondary. My assumption is I am well placed to generate a nasty pocket (which is why 3 PG is having a holiday) or a running battle up towards Vyazma.

Not much happening on the approaches to Gomel, for the moment I only have infantry there.

Last bit of the Bialystok pocket collapsed and the infantry are moving up, I guess they willl be in action about T7/8 and with decent CPP. Minsk now has 2 rail lines and will function as a super depot next turn.

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Good thing here is so many very weak Soviet formations, hasty attacks trigger routs and shatters. Rested one Pzr Corps, the other 2 swung south of Kiev, no need to focus directly on the city as its indefensible now in any case. Depot system snapping into places, should add Vinnitsa to the collection next turn.

Final bits of the border battles completed – apart from one really annoying Mtn division that is insisting on touring the Carpathians.

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Going as well as possible, no doubt something horrible lurks in Odessa, rails repaired to Kishinev.

The Rumanian tank division is feeling rather bruised.

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Ground losses – not much actual combat but had to use the Pzrs, hence losing 210.

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So far I've lost almost 5,000 trucks, 2,000 in this turn alone as my supply lines start to stretch – so that is going to escalate as these become more extended and if the weather worsens.

Fortunately the Soviets have lost almost 18,000, even more kindly they have loaned me 7,400 of them, so I actually have more than I started with.

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While we are on this screen, for the axis this is a useful table (its useful for the Soviets but harder to read due to them having so many more army level commands). So far all my Pzr Grps are meeting their supply needs, unusually so are all the infantry armies. I doubt that is going to last but the longer I delay moving into a deficit the longer I can sustain some pressure.

Still mostly keeping the LW well back, the VVS has got rather shy and this means I can avoid stressing my supply lines. The key front sectors have fighter cover.

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Air losses, as mentioned the VVS is avoiding too much front line action, most of the losses came from the fraternal visit to their future Romanian allies.

Given they train 225 pilots a turn, the opening 4 weeks has cost them 10 weeks of production. Its exceptionally hard to avoid the consequences until their units resize in the autumn – when it is a bit easier to manage pilot allocation etc.


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One small trick. I'm only moving up the short ranged and single engined planes. This is actually made easier as the VVS has disappeared. The best thing to do is to force deploy an air group and then run an air transport mission aimed at that airbase. That will fill out the base so its operational (no point in having the planes there otherwise) and means its not immediately competing with the ground forces.

Also I'm not sure pulling the VVS out is such a good idea. Yes you lose a lot but you create another pressure point on the axis side.
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by Speedysteve »

Soviet response to the 4th week of the Great Patriotic War.

In the North there were no air or ground attacks of note and I positioned my forces to delay the Germans north of Pskov whilst my defensive lines are built up towards Leningrad.

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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by Speedysteve »

In the Center we reinforced our defensive lines, re-established contact with Comrades in Mogilev and managed to rout an enemy Tank Rgt....extra vodka rations were issued. Huzzah!

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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by Speedysteve »

In the South we did manage to cut off a few enemy Rgt's, made 1 of them retreat but unfortunately Kornilov's last attack to rout them failed. Vodka rations were reduced for Kornilov after this failure:

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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by Speedysteve »

Air War.

In response to Herr Loki's statement about our glorious VVS I wanted to provide further information on my strategy which Comrade Stalin has approved.

After the chaos of 22nd June I set myself a few immediate goals to lead to long term success:

1.) All air groups with low morale/experience (below 45) are to be kept in Reserve until vodka has improved their attributes.

2.) All air groups with low plane numbers/obsolete/non-produced planes will be kept in Reserve as much as possible before upgrading to more modern models.

3.) Pilots - gradual selection of 1st line fighter and IL-2 groups for trained pilots only.

---------------------

Now during the first few weeks of war I mainly retreated and re-organised. Also because it's risky to leave planes in airfields within 100-150 miles of the frontline. In addition to that the number of airfields in the rear is patchy. Some areas are well stocked (Stalino area for example) where as others have few (Volkhov/Voronezh area for example). As such AF's are being built but it takes time to get the Engineers to the HQ's to build them.

For turns 4-7 I have mainly tried to use the VVS for Ground Support in my offensive phase (I have de-activated them for better or worse at the end of my phase) for strategic attacks. I've typically been making 4-8 attacks a week and even with these it costs me c.200-300 planes.

Maybe I could do more but I feel my options are limited due to:

1.) Axis advance meaning my planes need to be in the rear.
2.) Limited fighter range.
3.) Ground attacks seem limited in effectiveness.
4.) Bombers outside of fighter range are massacred.

I have many planes on the field of battle as you can see. Any thoughts?

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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by M60A3TTS »

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I have many planes on the field of battle as you can see. Any thoughts?

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Truth be told, the screenshot doesn't say much. What does your Western Air Command look like?
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by DeletedUser1769703214 »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I have many planes on the field of battle as you can see. Any thoughts?

Truth be told, the screenshot doesn't say much. What does your Western Air Command look like?


QTY only matters when you far outweigh one particular front on the Germans. Do you have all these aircraft spreed all over the place Speedy? But yeah what M60 said. Need to see the details ;-)
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by M60A3TTS »

Here is a pic of what was my Western Air Command on turn 5 of the 41 campaign.

One fighter division (without museum pieces)
Two bomber divisions
One Recon Group
One Transport Group

There aren't enough tac aircraft in inventory yet to deploy a division of them to this theater. In any case it is still possible to provide a modicum of air support or interdiction if the Long Range Air Command can't do the job.

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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by DeletedUser1769703214 »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Here is a pic of what was my Western Air Command on turn 5 of the 41 campaign.

One fighter division (without museum pieces)
Two bomber divisions
One Recon Group
One Transport Group

There aren't enough tac aircraft in inventory yet to deploy a division of them to this theater. In any case it is still possible to provide a modicum of air support or interdiction if the Long Range Air Command can't do the job.



"Holy Smokes" My setup is totally different. I believe the only thing we have in common is no museum pieces for the fighter divisions.
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by DeletedUser1769703214 »

Ok, I laughed so hard my wife came running into the room to see if I was ok after reading this snippit. OMG that is funny. I guess it could have been a UFO that did it.

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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by Speedysteve »

Sure thing. Here's my Western Air Command. As you can see from the screenshot I just don't find there's enough AF's (bearing in mind they're also used by Moscow Air Command and LR Air Command). Several are overloaded as you can also see as I want planes out there. I feel it's too risky to have them too near the front or they could be overrun by a Panzer attack. Anyhow here it is.

I'll also add that I'm constantly learning as I go through this as haven't played this for over 3 years now. For example 56 IAD is now nearer the front spread onto 2 AF's and 43 IAD is further back with fewer but modernised fighters etc etc.

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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by DeletedUser1769703214 »

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

Sure thing. Here's my Western Air Command. As you can see from the screenshot I just don't find there's enough AF's (bearing in mind they're also used by Moscow Air Command and LR Air Command). Several are overloaded as you can also see as I want planes out there. I feel it's too risky to have them too near the front or they could be overrun by a Panzer attack. Anyhow here it is.

I'll also add that I'm constantly learning as I go through this as haven't played this for over 3 years now. For example 56 IAD is now nearer the front spread onto 2 AF's and 43 IAD is further back with fewer but modernised fighters etc etc.


Interesting, Not a bad ratio of fighters to tac/LB bombers. But I don't think it is enough.

Personally I don't use Tac bombers in the center around Moscow or Leningrad. I use them in the south in open terrain to rack up more kills. But I have not used them in WITE2 yet but I bet it rhymes with WITE1.
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by Speedysteve »

I don't know how much more I could put of anything out there as there isn't enough AF's[:D]
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by DeletedUser1769703214 »

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I don't know how much more I could put of anything out there as there isn't enough AF's[:D]

You put Air on all fronts?
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by M60A3TTS »

Whatever air is at Rzhev and Vyazma, I'm guessing LRAC bombers, best to fly them to bases near Moscow and get your fighters to those two locations. You want them forward. I'm not even sure the fighters at Voskresensk can cover any bomber units. I do agree with HLYA that you are a bit light in the LB department. If you have a shortage, you could always transfer one full DBAD over from LRAC to help out. If you really want that 215th ShAP to behave like a bomber, maybe re-assign that to your 10th SAD which already has your IL-2s. Optionally then move the I-153s of 123 IAP to 43rd IAD to consolidate your vintage fighter ensemble. You will want to get those regiments upgraded when you can.
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by Speedysteve »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I don't know how much more I could put of anything out there as there isn't enough AF's[:D]

You put Air on all fronts?

I have yes
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by Speedysteve »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Whatever air is at Rzhev and Vyazma, I'm guessing LRAC bombers, best to fly them to bases near Moscow and get your fighters to those two locations. You want them forward. I'm not even sure the fighters at Voskresensk can cover any bomber units. I do agree with HLYA that you are a bit light in the LB department. If you have a shortage, you could always transfer one full DBAD over from LRAC to help out. If you really want that 215th ShAP to behave like a bomber, maybe re-assign that to your 10th SAD which already has your IL-2s. Optionally then move the I-153s of 123 IAP to 43rd IAD to consolidate your vintage fighter ensemble. You will want to get those regiments upgraded when you can.

It's a bit different now. Bear in mind we are 3 weeks ahead of this in game. I've already done many of those things but I can't share as it's a joint AAR (already moved out LR Bombers from Rzhev and Vyazma. As I mentioned above 56 IAD is now more forward compared to this screenshot)

As an aside it seems the LR Bomb command is kind of pointless except for the laser guided night bombing since they take up SOOOOO much space at the limited AF's on offer and can't fly in daylight without massacre?
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by M60A3TTS »

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I don't know how much more I could put of anything out there as there isn't enough AF's[:D]

There's this scrap dealer I know in Tblisi. Maybe I could find his phone number for you. [;)]

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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by DeletedUser1769703214 »

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

I don't know how much more I could put of anything out there as there isn't enough AF's[:D]

You put Air on all fronts?

I have yes

Personally I concentrate on two areas and slowly expand with the Soviets. Normally I concentrate @ Leningrad T1 & T2. Then Moscow area T2 & T3 depending on if I can get my darn HQ's from the stupid pocket :( I let the other fronts be as they may because they aren't life threatining. If you know what I mean. Then if the Germans don't go for Leningrad it is easy to redeploy. But that is just me.
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RE: T4 - even more Soviet nasty actions are recorded

Post by DeletedUser1769703214 »

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Whatever air is at Rzhev and Vyazma, I'm guessing LRAC bombers, best to fly them to bases near Moscow and get your fighters to those two locations. You want them forward. I'm not even sure the fighters at Voskresensk can cover any bomber units. I do agree with HLYA that you are a bit light in the LB department. If you have a shortage, you could always transfer one full DBAD over from LRAC to help out. If you really want that 215th ShAP to behave like a bomber, maybe re-assign that to your 10th SAD which already has your IL-2s. Optionally then move the I-153s of 123 IAP to 43rd IAD to consolidate your vintage fighter ensemble. You will want to get those regiments upgraded when you can.

It's a bit different now. Bear in mind we are 3 weeks ahead of this in game. I've already done many of those things but I can't share as it's a joint AAR (already moved out LR Bombers from Rzhev and Vyazma. As I mentioned above 56 IAD is now more forward compared to this screenshot)

As an aside it seems the LR Bomb command is kind of pointless except for the laser guided night bombing since they take up SOOOOO much space at the limited AF's on offer and can't fly in daylight without massacre?

Ok :) I will watch for future developments.
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