Finland Diplomacy

[petedalby]

Plus, Finland is in an extremely strategic position. And not just for attacking Leningrad. The port of Petsamo supplies the Uboat fleet attacking the Murmansk convoys. Without Petsamo, I avoid moving uboats into the Barents Sea. Also, Axis forces in Finland can threaten to cut the Murmansk rail line and perhaps capture Arkhangelsk. Both these actions are deathblows to the USSR.

And of course the Russians do not have to defend their northern borders quite so heavily if the threat of Finland joining the Axis is removed.

[DrZom]

ORIGINAL: petedalby

Plus, Finland is in an extremely strategic position. And not just for attacking Leningrad. The port of Petsamo supplies the Uboat fleet attacking the Murmansk convoys. Without Petsamo, I avoid moving uboats into the Barents Sea. Also, Axis forces in Finland can threaten to cut the Murmansk rail line and perhaps capture Arkhangelsk. Both these actions are deathblows to the USSR.

And of course the Russians do not have to defend their northern borders quite so heavily if the threat of Finland joining the Axis is removed.

Finland is not that hard to take out with forces that can man the barricades well before Germans venture that far north. Those extra MPP are nice.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: Epekepe

ORIGINAL: wobbleguts


OK, I'm ready to be flamed here.

Why would anyone want to waste 500MP's on diplomacy with Finland? Seems a waste of MP's to me. What is the benefit?

Well, if you get Finnish HQ, army, 2 corps etc. it might be well spend money.

Its well spent money for Germany..especially if the Allies intervene in the Winter War, AND, Finland wins the Winter War, thus preserving its 1939 boundaries. The USSR is double fubared. 1st, Soviet mobilization goes down the toilet, and 2nd) The Finno-Soviet 1939 boundary abuts Leningrad, Belomorsk, and Kandalaska.

If the Allies intervene..Finland goes 15% pro-Allied. Time for Axis diplomacy if you wish. Why? Because upon Germanys declaration of war on the USSR..Finland will join as long as its pro-axis, as explained in the rules. Not 15%, not 50% nor 100%. No..all that is required is 1% pro-Axis for Finland to join. With Finland in, then Germany can decide in the future if she wants to use Soumi as a launchpad for invasion or not.

Cutting the RR line at Belmorsk is a bonus, because Murmansk is the only ice free port the USSR has in the European Theater. If the line is cut..the UK-USSR convoy goes to Archanglsk, which is bound by ice in the winter, thus again closing the convoy like clockwork, every winter.

Epekepe witnessed me doing this in an MP match on YT. I spent a total of about 400 MMP to do this thing, and got not only the deployed units including a valuable fighter, but in addition, bought everything else Finland could build. It was well worth the investment that gave my Axis another option. [:)]

[Alcibiades73]

ORIGINAL: OldCrowBalthazor


Its well spent money for Germany..especially if the Allies intervene in the Winter War, AND, Finland wins the Winter War, thus preserving its 1939 boundaries. The USSR is double fubared. 1st, Soviet mobilization goes down the toilet, and 2nd) The Finno-Soviet 1939 boundary abuts Leningrad, Belomorsk, and Kandalaska.

If the Allies intervene..Finland goes 15% pro-Allied. Time for Axis diplomacy if you wish. Why? Because upon Germanys declaration of war on the USSR..Finland will join as long as its pro-axis, as explained in the rules. Not 15%, not 50% nor 100%. No..all that is required is 1% pro-Axis for Finland to join. With Finland in, then Germany can decide in the future if she wants to use Soumi as a launchpad for invasion or not.

Cutting the RR line at Belmorsk is a bonus, because Murmansk is the only ice free port the USSR has in the European Theater. If the line is cut..the UK-USSR convoy goes to Archanglsk, which is bound by ice in the winter, thus again closing the convoy like clockwork, every winter.

Epekepe witnessed me doing this in an MP match on YT. I spent a total of about 400 MMP to do this thing, and got not only the deployed units including a valuable fighter, but in addition, bought everything else Finland could build. It was well worth the investment that gave my Axis another option. [:)]

But again, the operative question is not whether it is money well-spent. Rather, is it "better spent than investing in Turkey, Spain, or Italy, etc.?"

[petedalby]

But again, the operative question is not whether it is money well-spent. Rather, is it "better spent than investing in Turkey, Spain, or Italy, etc.?"

IMO - yes. As OldCrowBalthazor explained - if Finland is just 1% Axis they will join in the attack on the USSR. Defeating the USSR is the key to the Axis winning the game.

Other diplomatic efforts have their pros & cons but are more easily countered before a Minor joins either side because they have to get to 100% to be effective.

The exception is Sweden because if it goes pro Allied the iron ore convoys to Germany stop depriving it of valuable MPPs.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

ORIGINAL: Alcibiades73


But again, the operative question is not whether it is money well-spent. Rather, is it "better spent than investing in Turkey, Spain, or Italy, etc.?"

The operative answer is, "It depends on the circumstances and your long range strategy for that particular match or game."

[petedalby]

Probably also worth mentioning that the OP and most of the respondents are doing so from a MP perspective - not SP.