Let's try again

[Maallon]

Though Alfred seems to get a lot of hate recently, especially in the last days and though his ban was something he may have seen coming - honestly you can't go on a rant like that in a public forum and expect not to get banned if someone reports you, no matter what your arguments are - I would like to point out that Alfred has contributed and still contributes a lot of value to this forum.

From some of the classics like:
Logistics 101
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#2878790
Ship Repair 101 Guide
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#2990845

To some of the more recent ones:
Anti-Air Question
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#5085995
Remain on Station
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#5082715
Nav Search Influencing if Torp Bombers Attack
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... =&#5085851

In my case Alfred was actually one of the persons here on the forum that made me stick with WITPAE like barely anyone else.
I came mostly from Hearts of Iron 3 Black Ice before I discovered WITPAE and was completely overwhelmed by this game at first. Reading this forum was one of the main reasons I got into this game proper and I don't regret it. But the posts from Alfred, among others of course, were the ones that often helped me out the most in understanding the game.
I grew up in a rough neighborhood, where heavily insulting someone as a greeting was considered hearty, so I often fail to see what others consider rude and what not.
But if you set aside Alfred's rudeness and just look at the content his contribution in terms of game knowledge is invaluable, especially if you want to learn the game properly.

So I would like to encourage people to either get a thicker fur and concentrate more on what is said instead of the how or use the green button if you think it is not worth it.
Either way I would appreciate it if the bickering would come to an end and I hope that peace will move into this forum again.

[MarkShot]

I think you have an excellent point. While searching, I came across numerous illuminating posts by Alfred.

---

Alfred,

I apologize for my response, and attacking your character. Please forgive me. It will probably take months before I am ready for some deep questions, but I hope you will endeavor to help me then. Thank you.

[Trugrit]

Mark,

I’m perfectly willing for a restart. I welcomed you from the start.
I’ll help you anyway I can with the game. I’m interested in the game.

But…..I must say that I’ve never seen a thread like this on the forum before.
Not until you showed up. There are questions to be asked.

First, you came back with a whole lot of qualifications like you are applying
for a job. What Job would that be?

I’ve said before that I don’t care about your qualifications.
I don’t think many forum members care about your past or how smart you are.

When you first posted your resume in that thread I put it down as a form
of your insecurity. You might be a little shy at joining a new group and you
wanted to puff yourself up some so we would not think you were a nobody.

That is perfectly normal even though it is the stuff that kids do in high school.
That stuff almost always works itself out over time as you interact with the group
and gain more confidence.

But of course there can be another reason which I over looked.

You might be telling us that you are a red hot super smart “Beta” guy
who is coming in this forum to show us hicks and hayseeds how
it should be done and let us know you are now the top dog.

I say that because you have come back now with another string of
qualifications and this time it looks like you have brought Erik Rutins
to back you up.

In the over ten years I’ve been on the forum I can’t recall ever seeing
Erik Rutins show up on this forum to defend a single player.

Erik says he is concerned about all new players but it seems to me that
he is only concerned about one new player.

This forum has been concerned about new players for the last ten years.
Unfortunately, not all of them make the learning curve. The dropout rate is high.
That is not because of Alfred. He is very rude but he is in the open about it.
He does deserve a time out on occasion.

Erik Rutins has not been around here at all to help or support anybody until you.

So….. the question is what is Erik Rutins to you?

Is he your big stick? Your enforcer? Big brother? Your mother?
Are you going to be his inside snitch, his spy, his informer on anyone you label as a deplorable?
Are you going to hide behind his skirts and run to him every time you feel a head wind?
High school stuff.

Then the real question is what kind of player are you going to be?

Are you here to learn and enjoy the game like I am?
I’m all in on that.

Or…...Are you here for an agenda that you have brought in from somewhere else?
A big chip on your shoulder from somewhere else?

Heads up…...A big test of this for me is to see if Erik Rutins answers this post for you.

You appear to be a smart guy. You just don’t want to be too smart.
There are plenty of smart players on this forum.

I’m pretty smart myself even if I’m low key and a nobody.

Bygones.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Tanaka



Toxicity results from someone that acts like they own the forum, acts like they are the gatekeeper of the game and the forum, responds in kind to posts, goes on egocentric rants about people and the questions they ask on the forum...I could go on and on...

I've never questioned Alfred's knowledge of the game only his poor egocentric I AM GOD attitude towards others. You are blinded by something if you do not see that and if you think I am the only one that sees that you are kidding yourself...

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.a ... age=1&key=

And yes I think watching Lodrik play as the Japanese is a good beginner (primer) series to watch. So shoot me.

What do you want to be shot with?

At this point a shot of alcohol.

The only thing that I could help you with is "Fireball" whiskey which I purchased yesterday. It is for cooking and baking purposes. You know, put it in with the eggs for your "French" toast or maybe in a spice cake or soak raisins in it to put into a cake.

https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/fireball-whisky/

[Ian R]

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


Mark,

I’m perfectly willing for a restart. I welcomed you from the start.
I’ll help you anyway I can with the game. I’m interested in the game.

But…..I must say that I’ve never seen a thread like this on the forum before.
Not until you showed up. There are questions to be asked.

First, you came back with a whole lot of qualifications like you are applying
for a job. What Job would that be?

I’ve said before that I don’t care about your qualifications.
I don’t think many forum members care about your past or how smart you are.

When you first posted your resume in that thread I put it down as a form
of your insecurity. You might be a little shy at joining a new group and you
wanted to puff yourself up some so we would not think you were a nobody.

That is perfectly normal even though it is the stuff that kids do in high school.
That stuff almost always works itself out over time as you interact with the group
and gain more confidence.

But of course there can be another reason which I over looked.

You might be telling us that you are a red hot super smart “Beta” guy
who is coming in this forum to show us hicks and hayseeds how
it should be done and let us know you are now the top dog.

I say that because you have come back now with another string of
qualifications and this time it looks like you have brought Erik Rutins
to back you up.

In the over ten years I’ve been on the forum I can’t recall ever seeing
Erik Rutins show up on this forum to defend a single player.

Erik says he is concerned about all new players but it seems to me that
he is only concerned about one new player.

This forum has been concerned about new players for the last ten years.
Unfortunately, not all of them make the learning curve. The dropout rate is high.
That is not because of Alfred. He is very rude but he is in the open about it.
He does deserve a time out on occasion.

Erik Rutins has not been around here at all to help or support anybody until you.

So….. the question is what is Erik Rutins to you?

Is he your big stick? Your enforcer? Big brother? Your mother?
Are you going to be his inside snitch, his spy, his informer on anyone you label as a deplorable?
Are you going to hide behind his skirts and run to him every time you feel a head wind?
High school stuff.

Then the real question is what kind of player are you going to be?

Are you here to learn and enjoy the game like I am?
I’m all in on that.

Or…...Are you here for an agenda that you have brought in from somewhere else?
A big chip on your shoulder from somewhere else?

Heads up…...A big test of this for me is to see if Erik Rutins answers this post for you.

You appear to be a smart guy. You just don’t want to be too smart.
There are plenty of smart players on this forum.

I’m pretty smart myself even if I’m low key and a nobody.

Bygones.

Interesting questions, to be sure.

[MarkShot]

Above was as an offer of olive branch to Alfred. Just in case that was unclear.

Whether Erik answers your questions is up to him.

I am not insecure or an introvert, but sharing more background would only feed your impression that achievement correlates with insecurity. So, I won't.

It is not uncommon to share something about one's self when entering a new place. I have done that elsewhere and here. (As these boards are English speaking are largely American. I will say that I didn't break any cultural taboos. This would not be true every place.)

What's my relationship with Erik, I suppose long time associates since Panther Games left Battle Front and joined Matrix around 2003, I think.

I was very clear when the hostilities began. The forums exist to sell games and retain customers. Betas and employees are expected to reflect the best interests of the business. "Noob stomping" is not in the best interest of selling games or attracting new content producers. After the obvious and fair warning, I reported the situation. Erik is the senior manager here, and the ultimate arbitrator no matter what I might think. And so, he probably saw visiting this neglected forum as one of his job responsibilities.

I think its wonderful that this forum is populated with so many dedicated expert players. But that is still no reason for new customers to pay their dues or grovel.

You say that Alfred is naturally gruff. Then, maybe you will understand that I am naturally diligent and take both paid and unpaid roles seriously.

There are people in this world who struggle to assimilate into larger society and conform to social norms. I don't have an answer for you. I would raise the medical/behavioral matter with Erik privately. I am sure he will do his best to be fair and accommodating.

[Ian R]

Mark,

Having gaslit Alfred with your "therapy comments", provoked the angry response you wanted, and then misused the report system to get him banned, you now, even in his absence, are so ill mannered, and such an internet troll, as to personally launch a passive/aggressive attack on him -again- and accuse him of suffering some medical/behavioural problem.

Your behaviour is objectively disgusting.

Quoted in case you try and delete it:

You say that Alfred is naturally gruff. Then, maybe you will understand that I am naturally diligent and take both paid and unpaid roles seriously.

There are people in this world who struggle to assimilate into larger society and conform to social norms. I don't have an answer for you. I would raise the medical/behavioral matter with Erik privately. I am sure he will do his best to be fair and accommodating.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Ian R
Mark,

Having gaslit Alfred with your "therapy comments", provoked the angry response you wanted, and then misused the report system to get him banned, you now, even in his absence, are so ill mannered, and such an internet troll, as to personally launch a passive/aggressive attack him -again- and accuse him of suffering some medical/behavioural problem.

Your behaviour is objectively disgusting.

The fact is that this sub-forum has had its own moderators for a while, but what I can see has happened is that there are two camps that have developed, one pro-Alfred and one against. I've received PMs both arguing that Alfred did not deserve a ban (not that he did not violate the forum rules, but that he knows so much and is otherwise so helpful that he should have gotten a pass) and that his ban was overdue and his behavior has driven away as many people as he has helped. To be clear, these PMs arguing against Alfred have come from multiple members of the AE community concerned about his behavior and their names are not just MarkShot or Tanaka.

I'm glad my attention was drawn to this issue as it does appear that a sub-community within our greater community is heading towards division, if it has not already divided.

I'm going to be completely clear about this for everyone's benefit.

First, there are no favorites, no one gets a pass. However, I do have very limited time for forum moderation and thus it is sometimes perceived that if I don't see and act on something, that constitutes approval. It does not. We do however apply the rule that reactions to provocations are not the same as the initial provocation. I've now read thread after thread where Alfred issues the initial insult and his defenders point to the reaction in his defence. The initial insult is what counts in these cases and I've seen Alfred dishing that out time and again.

Second, we don't go back and enforce "history". If the mods missed it and weeks have passed and the community has moved on, we take note of it but don't chase it. If we see a new offense, past behavior is taken into account.

Third, Ian you have an official warning per our policy as this is the first issue I've had with you. If you violate the forum rules again, you'll also get a ban to think things over.

As I've said before and in PMs, Alfred may be very helpful to veteran players or his forum friends. He may be extremely knowledgeable. However, he needs to follow the forum rules just like everyone else and he has not been doing so, period.

Regards,

- Erik

[Admiral DadMan]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I don't have the manual until I buy it. I know I could have it now if I asked Roger, Joel, or Erik. But to be honest I am still rereading the WITW and WITE-2 manuals.

Really? When everyone else is told "No, you must buy the game."

I find that highly interesting.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I don't have the manual until I buy it. I know I could have it now if I asked Roger, Joel, or Erik. But to be honest I am still rereading the WITW and WITE-2 manuals.

Really? When everyone else is told "No, you must buy the game."

I find that highly interesting.

+1

[MarkShot]

You would be simply amazed at the level of corruption in the gaming industry.

David Heath (probably Erik) once sent me a box of every game in the catalog after seeing the promotional material I did for Panther.

Today, a PDF file, tomorrow a coup in DC.

Don’t waste a minute. Pick up a phone and call DHS now!!! You stumbled upon the plot behind all the plots.

PS: If you disassemble WITW-AE backwards, you will find the launch codes for all the SSBNs at sea.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe




What do you want to be shot with?

At this point a shot of alcohol.

The only thing that I could help you with is "Fireball" whiskey which I purchased yesterday. It is for cooking and baking purposes. You know, put it in with the eggs for your "French" toast or maybe in a spice cake or soak raisins in it to put into a cake.

https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/fireball-whisky/

Yeah I can't stand Fireball for drinking (can't stand the candy either) but never had it in a recipe interesting.

Have you ever had Peanut Butter whiskey before? Don't knock it until you try it. Damn is it good for sipping straight up!

https://skrewballwhiskey.com/

[Admiral DadMan]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

You would be simply amazed at the level of corruption in the gaming industry.

David Heath (probably Erik) once sent me a box of every game in the catalog after seeing the promotional material I did for Panther.

Today, a PDF file, tomorrow a coup in DC.

Don’t waste a minute. Pick up a phone and call DHS now!!! You stumbled upon the plot behind all the plots.

PS: If you disassemble WITW-AE backwards, you will find the launch codes for all the SSBNs at sea.

You weaken your position with this post.

Had you stopped with "You would be simply amazed at the level of corruption in the gaming industry", it would have been fine.

The rest of the post falls flat, and could be interpreted as an attack on me. Completely unnecessary.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

ORIGINAL: Tanaka




At this point a shot of alcohol.

The only thing that I could help you with is "Fireball" whiskey which I purchased yesterday. It is for cooking and baking purposes. You know, put it in with the eggs for your "French" toast or maybe in a spice cake or soak raisins in it to put into a cake.

https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/fireball-whisky/

Yeah I can't stand Fireball for drinking (can't stand the candy either) but never had it in a recipe interesting.

Have you ever had Peanut Butter whiskey before? Don't knock it until you try it. Damn is it good for sipping straight up!

https://skrewballwhiskey.com/

Nope, I never had Peanut Butter whiskey.

I have pretty much quit drinking the hard stuff. Giving away only two little "Dixie" cups worth from a litre of Jack Daniels Black label, finishing that and then remembering giving the same amount away from a litre of Hennessy cognac while consuming that much and the next day being informed that I had finished that . . .

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

ORIGINAL: MarkShot

I don't have the manual until I buy it. I know I could have it now if I asked Roger, Joel, or Erik. But to be honest I am still rereading the WITW and WITE-2 manuals.

Really? When everyone else is told "No, you must buy the game."

I find that highly interesting.

I'm assuming Mark is referring to the fact that in the old days when WITP, we did not tend to share the manual outside the game but in more recent years we've often made it publicly available as a preview. Mark has been a good community member and a helpful tester, as have many in the WITP-AE community. In general, if an active and helpful tester asks us if they could see a preview of a manual for a game they are considering purchasing, we might go ahead and provide it or even post it to the public in general if there is wider demand for it.

Mark has been promised no special favors, we just tend to try to help the community members that help us with testing and feedback on our games.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: MarkShot
You would be simply amazed at the level of corruption in the gaming industry.

I'm not sure if this was intended as part of the humor in this post, but I can say that we are not corrupt.

David Heath (probably Erik) once sent me a box of every game in the catalog after seeing the promotional material I did for Panther.

I'm guessing that was 15 years ago now? Back when we went to conventions much more often and had a lot of extra physical stock we would sometimes provide extra games as compensation for community members who were very helpful, especially as our budget was quite tight as far as cash went.

Regards,

- Erik

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan
You weaken your position with this post.

Had you stopped with "You would be simply amazed at the level of corruption in the gaming industry", it would have been fine.

The rest of the post falls flat, and could be interpreted as an attack on me. Completely unnecessary.

This seems to all have gone down a strange path, with the implications that Mark is somehow afforded special treatment and I think that a lot of posts are being read and parsed with assumptions that do not match the reality I know.

If it wasn't clear from my earlier posts, let me clarify it yet again. Alfred earned the ban based on his own behavior and whether it had happened to Mark or anyone else, he still would have earned the ban. The multiple examples of similar behavior in other threads really make for an open and shut case on this.

Regards,

- Erik

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Have you ever had Peanut Butter whiskey before? Don't knock it until you try it. Damn is it good for sipping straight up!

https://skrewballwhiskey.com/

Sounds odd, but may work. Love both and will see if my local dealer has heard about this.

Talking about odd stuff, I just got hold of a bottle of French whisky whose peculiarity is that the aging cave is a giant WWII era bunkerised fuel tank build to hold diesel fuel for the German u-boats at the Bordeaux submarine base.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Have you ever had Peanut Butter whiskey before? Don't knock it until you try it. Damn is it good for sipping straight up!

https://skrewballwhiskey.com/

Sounds odd, but may work. Love both and will see if my local dealer has heard about this.

Talking about odd stuff, I just got hold of a bottle of French whisky whose peculiarity is that the aging cave is a giant WWII era bunkerised fuel tank build to hold diesel fuel for the German u-boats at the Bordeaux submarine base.

Well, at least they are still good for something!

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Have you ever had Peanut Butter whiskey before? Don't knock it until you try it. Damn is it good for sipping straight up!

https://skrewballwhiskey.com/

Sounds odd, but may work. Love both and will see if my local dealer has heard about this.

Talking about odd stuff, I just got hold of a bottle of French whisky whose peculiarity is that the aging cave is a giant WWII era bunkerised fuel tank build to hold diesel fuel for the German u-boats at the Bordeaux submarine base.

That is very cool. Did not know any of those old submarine bases were still around. How is the French whiskey?

I'm telling you that you will love that Peanut Butter whiskey. I was hesitant to try it but now it is one of my favorites!