To Saratov! (And back?): A beginner AAR (Stamb vs Lovenought)

[Stamb]

No hijacking, after game discussions are welcome!

To be honest to readers I'm debating whether to surrender in our game as it's just not possible to gain the advantage and advance as you should be able to as Soviets in 1944. I couldn't even isolate and keep a single Infantry Division locked up using 1/3 of my entire Armoured force.....enough said.

Right now system benefits defender too much. Especially 50% CPP drop during any attack.

Here it is taken to an extreme, https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 2&t=379102

It is enough to throw any non routed units to an attacker's path to drain their CPP. That's it.

[loki100]

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if he fights you on the front line, just do small encirclements, even a stack here and there -add that to the shatters, to his lack of Gds and by late July/August you'll get a lot of operational freedom. Just need to work for it.

I told that this game is similar to yours vs Steve. Where was your summer offensive? If i remember it correctly - front line barely changed from a winter `41 to a winter `42.

In my case it would be the same. There would be no pockets. Not even a single one.

No pockets? Here is a list of destroyed units by turn over the May-October period (I've not counted purely SU)

Say 80 Divisions?



and a loss/turn/ratio table I've shown before

[loki100]

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I described this situation in few posts above. Even for the first attack I have to bring multiple divisions, like 3 or 4 to match Soviets. During an attack, successful or not i lose 50% CPP. My units have no attack capability any more.
If that attack turns into hold - I have to bring another 3-4 divisions. Axis do not have so many units to do so. But even If i go full yolo and leave my flanks unprotected and bring more divisions to make a second attack and i succeed - still it is only one hex that i was able to push Soviets from and I had to use 6-8 divisions for it. There are still Soviets in the adjusted hexes to the left and to the right. This is the end.
...

A short lesson in how to set up a narrow, sustained, offensive. Which with the 1942 NM will wreck a sector of the Soviet army while you move onto something else.

Attack, lose 50% CPP, do not advance those units. Clear any residual Soviet ZoC on those units (may need a second echelon). No need to advance just clear the ZoC. If need be, pull back a hex, better to shed a single CPP for a move and get the full non-ZoC recovery.

Why? Because CPP is regained at the end of your combat phase.

Next turn, those original units now have 75 CPP, advance (shed say 1-2) attack, don't advance. Clear the ZoC. Next turn they will have about 60 CPP.

Do a final round, give those corps a turn off and they return to near 100.

You can keep this up.

At some stage, commit the Pzrs for a pocket, don't go deep, be happy to stack at Corps height. You can do this usefully in the turn you let your core assault formations have a break.

it only works on a narrow front but it really seriously wrecks low NM defenders. Even units that retreat with losses will need 3-4 turns to recover, any that rout (& they will) need longer. So crudely you rest say 1 turn in 4 (maybe 3), they need to rest for 3 turns.

Make sure you use leaders like Heinrici, concentrate the LW.

Will this get you to Stalingrad? No. Will it inflict really heavy losses on a Soviet player who tries to deny you deep gains - as in the post, yep.

The mathematics build up.

Of course once the Germans hit their late 43/44 NM, the Soviets should do this in reverse.

[Stamb]

I understand rules how to restore CPP. And I described that there are not enough units to get rid off ZOC in that quote that you used in your message.

I described this situation in few posts above. Even for the first attack I have to bring multiple divisions, like 3 or 4 to match Soviets. During an attack, successful or not i lose 50% CPP. My units have no attack capability any more.
If that attack turns into hold - I have to bring another 3-4 divisions. Axis do not have so many units to do so. But even If i go full yolo and leave my flanks unprotected and bring more divisions to make a second attack and i succeed - still it is only one hex that i was able to push Soviets from and I had to use 6-8 divisions for it. There are still Soviets in the adjusted hexes to the left and to the right. This is the end.

And here I highlighted that with such commitment I will be able to clear 1 hex. There are enemy units to a left, and to the right. Which I can not not push, as there is not enough forces to do so.

[loki100]

last comment

then attack somewhere else, its a strategy game, make your own configuration of the battlefield. I'd suggest that come April 1942 the only real target is the Red Army, VP come later. So go where you can inflict damage.

And of course you can always attack and pull back, on the assumption you are not in a ZoC locked salient?

[Stamb]

last comment

then attack somewhere else, its a strategy game, make your own configuration of the battlefield. I'd suggest that come April 1942 the only real target is the Red Army, VP come later. So go where you can inflict damage.

And of course you can always attack and pull back, on the assumption you are not in a ZoC locked salient?

This situation is on the whole front, except of a parts that leads to nowhere.
And it is because of this:

1. Huge Soviet OOB. They have 2-3 units in every hex that I might be interested in. Plus multiple units in reserve mode in the back.

If they had less forces - it might be a viable strategy.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

So if you took Sevastopol that would take you up to 642 as a high watermark? And you've given up?

Clearly players can't be forced to continue playing a game they aren't enjoying. Some of the issues you raise might have some validity. But in terms of overall game balance I don't think there is much that can be concluded from this game.

When you say that the Soviet OOB is 'huge' what is the actual number?

[Stamb]

So if you took Sevastopol that would take you up to 642 as a high watermark? And you've given up?

Yep, it is suffering. The only reason that i have Leningrad - Soviet player did not figure out that he can use supply priority 4 for his units for a couple of turns. Otherwise I would stuck there as I did in a center.

Clearly players can't be forced to continue playing a game they aren't enjoying. Some of the issues you raise might have some validity. But in terms of overall game balance I don't think there is much that can be concluded from this game.

I did not describe any new issues(according to me) with my post. It was seen before in other AARs. Here I just posted that I have same experience as other Axis players in a games where Soviet were not defending upfront.

When you say that the Soviet OOB is 'huge' what is the actual number?

My opponent has a turn. I can not guarantee that I will provide correct number, but I think that it is around 5.2 mil on map + some forces in reserve + > 110% TBs requirements. It is beginning of the March `42

[Stamb]

To be honest i am tired of describing that current system is biased towards Soviets.

I, and other people before me, were saying that panzers are useless and people said - you don't know how to use them.
Only after a post from a new player that Erik (CEO) saw - he agreed that panzers are pretty bad in `41 and they will take a loot at it.

Same goes with the other things that I posted here.
All of that was said before me, by the other people. I just faced the same experience as other Axis players in a games where Soviets are not defending upfront.

If this is all WAD - ok, i have no problem. I will play as a Soviets or as an Axis vs AI.

[Jango32]

I'm unsure what could be done to inject a more dynamic play style into the game. There's a clear 'timing' in the game when each side changes the way it plays and sticks to it for the rest of the game. For the Soviets it's to play defensively and launch limited countermoves/counterattacks until 1943 (with the exception of winter). For the Germans it's to play aggressively until the initiative switch, when there's no point to launch offensives anymore except for limited countermoves/counterattacks and playing fire brigades for two or three in-game years.

[Stamb]

Data from a 2 or 1 turns before the end: