long range amphibious transports seem somewhat overtuned

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I'm not entirely certain but apparently all land units have a defense value of 0 vs transports? So the only defense value you get is the terrain bonus?

Yes, and just like entrenchment, terrain bonus just helps to mitigate defender losses but does not harm the attacker. You can also somewhat mitigate the amphibs power by not putting infantery at the coast. Their other attacks appart from soft and hard do not increase as dramatically.

Here's an example on how infantry is so vulnerable on the coast. I attacked a 2pip experienced German Army outside Hamburg with AVL 5's and 4's. The army took 5pts of damage the first strike. Even though it was to my benefit, I cringed a bit knowing this is so easy to do.(having suffered this myself). At least in this match..I never used cavalry or anti-air units for example to exploit this game mechanic. That really makes me cringe hearing some folks do that.
Anyways, point is..I also agree that AVLs are tuned up a bit high.
Here's a link showing the annihilation of a German army on the coast next to Hamburg...probably a 100,000+ strong. Shouldn't be possible: https://youtu.be/FkYG0v9oALc?list=PLsv6 ... nmd&t=2689

[SittingDuck]

Thanks, OldCrow.

As demostrated, that is en entirely unacceptable game flaw.

I gotta really look into this.

[SittingDuck]

Well, there are quite a number of things the affect the outcome.

However, the most egregious thing is that ALV have an attack +2 against soft units, +1 against hard units - at baseline.

Then each increment to the ALV units will give them +1 vs hard, +1 vs soft (in attack), and 0.5 vs each in defense.

So at max you have:

ALV: +7 vs soft, +6 vs hard (attack) & 2.5 vs hard/soft (defense)

Land units? 0 defense.... at all times.


Then on top of that there are loss modifiers for terrain and operation type (amph landing).

However, I am pretty sure those values are the CORE issue.


Additionally, I really do not like that players can hammer a defending unit via air, then send in the amph land force. Now, technically that is exactly what happens. But in the context of the game, I believe the ALV attack values are attempting to portray the firepower of the entire landing force. Which is OK, I guess, but the attack values and defense values have GOT to come down. It's ridiculous.

[Jackmck]

If the game designers reduce the effectiveness of long range amphibious transports, it will make it harder for the allies to win in the race to victory 1945 scenarios. There would need to be something that compensates for this, otherwise, the axis will usually win. Perhaps do not apply changes to those scenarios.

One change I would make against the allies though is to not allow a French long range transport without additional research. The only times i've used or seen used the French LRT was for gamey, ahistorical tricks. Would be better if this were not possible.

[SittingDuck]

Jackmck, do you mean primarily where the Allies are AI-controlled?

I could see that as an issue, I guess.

I think pretty much everything having to do with anything on water in this game is in fairly poor shape.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

One change I would make against the allies though is to not allow a French long range transport without additional research. The only times i've used or seen used the French LRT was for gamey, ahistorical tricks. Would be better if this were not possible.

Agree with this one particularly with MP play. Could just house-rule this not to be allowed, at least in 1939 and 1940 pre-Fall of France.

[SittingDuck]

It's totally possible to make the build availability for the French transports be after 1940, if desired.

[Chernobyl]

Idea. Much of WWII was about securing ports and bases "close enough" to the next overseas target.

Proposal: Change so that only Short Range Amphib transports get the free attack from the sea. LR can still land but they don't get the same free punch.

[taffjones]

I also think that the "Evade" percentage should be reduced.

I have hit a Amp transport with a Maritime bomber, Battleships and Sub's and they have suffered no damage at all. Unfortunately this is not a one off but the norm.

It makes defending the Pacific islands impossible.

[Mithrilotter]

Concerning Evade, perhaps instead of taking no damage, they take half damage instead. It does seem very odd that slow amphibious transports can fully escape from fast surface ships and aircraft.

[Chernobyl]

If a transport evades a warship, I could imagine it "scattering" a la PQ-17 (take significant damage)?
But if it's bomber attacking, this wouldn't make sense.