Russkoe for the Landseers. '41 Campaign tyronec (Axis) vs Bitburger.

[loki100]

for a little bit of context I ended up with 1200 lost tanks by the end of November and 1800 by T37 (March 42)

completely changed how I had to reset the Pzrs for 1942, none to the reserve and I used most of the replacement battalions not to redeem low numbers but to push out the residual Czech stuff with the newer PzrIII/IV variants. I then have a stock of repl battalions left and can use them as emergency reinforcements as 1942 develops.

[Jango32]

Total German AFV losses on the 30th of December 1941 reached 2839. This includes Panzer Is, IIs, 35(t)s, 38(t)s, IIIs, IVs, command tanks and StuGs.

428 Panzer Is, 424 Panzer IIs, 796 Panzer 35(t)s and Panzer 38(t)s, 660 Panzer IIIs, 348 Panzer IVs, 79 command tanks, 104 StuGs. It is unclear if total losses refers to irrecoverable losses only, or if it includes recoverable (repairable) losses. Table II.VI.I from Germany and the Second World War volume IV.

[Jango32]

for a little bit of context I ended up with 1200 lost tanks by the end of November and 1800 by T37 (March 42)

completely changed how I had to reset the Pzrs for 1942, none to the reserve and I used most of the replacement battalions not to redeem low numbers but to push out the residual Czech stuff with the newer PzrIII/IV variants. I then have a stock of repl battalions left and can use them as emergency reinforcements as 1942 develops.

You also did not push for Orel, past Rzhev (IIRC you stopped at the outskirts from its west) to Kalinin, Tula and Moscow itself, as well as shift Panzer divisions from one army group to another in August and shift them again in mid September to the center in the AAR.

[loki100]

yes context is important but I did better territorily than in my game vs Steven and ended with 50% of the tank losses, by the end of winter in that game I had to send 3 Pzr divisions to the reserve to refit, not happening this time.

these aren't marginal changes that can be attributed to in-game play styles, its a big variance due to the patch that lowered the effectiveness of early Soviet armour

[tyronec]

The reduction in Panzer losses is significant for what Axis can achieve. Being able to trash a few extra Soviet divisions every turn builds up to a strong effect over the summer, and in this game Axis had quite a few Panzer divisions that were close to full strength when the game ended. You can see some good CVs for the units around Moscow.
What I found surprising was that there weren't many big pockets this game and yet the Soviet army is still a wreck by T14. Am not saying the game is unbalanced in the present patch because am not sure, however unless they can get a lot more out of the VVS than I am in my game with Rosencrantus I don't know how they should be playing the ground war.

[Stamb]

as i already posted it in discord, i will repeat it here again
pazners are now overpowered in terms of losses that they take
they are minimal
you can see examples in my AAR where panzers attack into swamp/heavy wood/rough terrain, sometimes even across minor river into the same bad terrain and dont give a ****
maybe few tanks are going to be lost

also from my AAR
there was a hell for them in the South and in the Cetner, they were routed,pushed back multiple times
and you know what?
on t19 Axis has 4089(3365) tanks

while in a previous patches this number would be around ~1.5k in best case

personally i would like to see smth between old patch and what do we have now, if we are talking about German tanks

[Stamb]

and check this battle on the top from M60 vs MSAG


3 panzers lost in a route, seriously?

ah
it is even across river...
which should escalate losses

[Jango32]

Flak needs to be looked at first.

[Rosencrantus]

The reduction in Panzer losses is significant for what Axis can achieve. Being able to trash a few extra Soviet divisions every turn builds up to a strong effect over the summer, and in this game Axis had quite a few Panzer divisions that were close to full strength when the game ended. You can see some good CVs for the units around Moscow.
What I found surprising was that there weren't many big pockets this game and yet the Soviet army is still a wreck by T14. Am not saying the game is unbalanced in the present patch because am not sure, however unless they can get a lot more out of the VVS than I am in my game with Rosencrantus I don't know how they should be playing the ground war.

I've seen some results from the new 2.27 and now 2.28 hotfix beta in which the air war got major adjustments, it seems in the right direction. German forces definitely suffered losses from Soviet ground attack planes once the LW became stretched out in the vast spaces of the Soviet Union. But I will say this from our game that so far the VVS hasn't done much offensively which hopefully the next patch will fix, but defensively you have bled a lot of air strength from LF1 supporting AGN. I've had to send a few air groups from other parts of the front and limit GS. Perhaps we should try the 2.28 beta since the performance slow down has been fixed? Seems like we can revert if we need to.

[tyronec]

Joel kindly sent me the save for the start of T14
There are about 800 AFVs in the active pool so losses were running close to production overall.

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[tyronec]

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[tyronec]

Looking at destroyed units, there were 39 Soviet divisions lost from T4 to T13, or an average of about 4 per turn. On T4-T10 it was more like 2 per turn and T11-T13 when things were getting desperate to defend Moscow and Sevastapol it rose to 8 per turn.
Given that there is nothing much that the Soviets can do about what gets pocketed on T1-2 I think this is fairly low rate of losses. The men captured shows much the same picture.

This suggests that Axis may be able to get a win by overrunning units with frontal attacks rather than the historical making big pockets.

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[Stamb]

on t5 you was well past Smolensk
while typically Soviets still hold it at that time
and there are nice bad terrain, for a defenders, nearby

once you pass it - there is much better terrain for an Axis mobile forces
what happened with a Soviets near Smolensk, was it only lightly defended?

[tyronec]

As I recall I assaulted Smolensk frontally on T3 (against 3 infantry divisions) and then pushed through the difficult area the next couple of turns.
I think Smolensk is hard to defend for the Soviets, in my game with Rosencrantus I set up what I though was a good enough rear cover but he pocketed a load of units around Smolensk on T4 and then took out my city fort at the first attack on T5.

You say typically the Soviets can hold this area but that is not what I am seeing as the game stands now with good Axis play. Maybe I am missing something from the Soviet perspective...

[Stamb]

there are a lot of factors
do Soviets decide to counter attack Axis mobile forces that were left alone on t2/t3 near Smolensk or not
if they do and they win this battles
then it is a huge win for Soviets as panzers/motorized divisions gonna lose all CPP and infantry is far back

anyway
it was very impressive performance from you
curious to see AAR vs Kulik (toxic thug)