My current issues with this game <3

Flashpoint Campaigns Southern Storm is a grand tactical wargame set at the height of the Cold War, with the action centered on the year 1989.

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Re: My current issues with this game <3

Post by 22sec »

Darojax wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:09 am
cbelva wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:30 am I felt it needed a response.
Thanks for that. Any thoughts/comments on the fact that it's neigh on impossible to coordinate units to attack/move simultaneously due to estimated timings not being accurate (except if issued as part of the initial orders)?
The devs love looking in to the saved game files and can usually nail a problem quickly if one exist in the code.

I am always curious what effect the EW is causing. If there is no EW interference then moving units should be able to coordinate and move closer to the times planned. That's also where the shorter times between turns influences the game. I as the overall commander can check in and control my movement better. I know in-game if there is a heavy EW burden on my forces, coordinating and controlling my forces is more work, and more time consuming.

My favorite thing in any of these games is to lead a Soviet regiment in the assault. A key piece to being successful is coordination. I haven't done it in FC a few months, but perhaps next time I test I can look at this as well.

All the points you brought up had some merit, and I always seeing the discussion that ensues. I sometimes look at the current state of the engine and think of where CMANO was it's first year in release. There's a lot going on under the hood, there is a lot going on on-screen too, and all of us; the developers (OTS), contributors, and consumers are still learning. I have a lot of confidence that FC will mature over its life just as the Command series did.
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Re: My current issues with this game <3

Post by Darojax »

cbelva wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:30 am In Flashpoint Campaign you are at a minimum a Battalion Commander but more realistically a Brigade/Regimental Commander and in some cases even a Division Commander.
Not only are you the Brigade/Regimental commander, but in fact you are assuming the roles of Commander of all the Battalions, Companies and even Platoons below you as well. If this was not true you would not be the one that gives them the exact move orders, down to platoon level. If this was not true you'd just tell your Battalion Commanders to "Go here and defend these areas" and the Battalion Commanders would take care of the details with the overall plan in mind. If this was how it was then long order delays would be perfectly realistic.

But this is not how it is. You are in charge of things in very much more lower detail than a Brigade Commander would deal with. This should be to be taken into consideration. In my opinion, there needs to be increased tactical flexibility across the board in this game, especially on the lower levels of hierarchy. Otherwise the smaller units will be constant victim of poor decision by the AI, or too slow to react since the AI doesn't understand what needs to be done in certain situations, and you as the player do not have the ability to give quick orders to specific units, which you should have, since you are the actual practical commander of every single unit.

So, to sum up: The player has Command and Orders responsibility ranging from an Operational to a Tactical level, but the game mechanic is only adapted to work well on an Operational level. Which has the effect that individual units act slow, sluggish more often than not leading to their annihilation.

Sure, you can fiddle with the SOP to set up rules how the unit should act when certain conditions are filled, but this can never be a good replacement for making an intelligent judgement call based on the current battle situation.

Anyway, hope that came across properly. Keeping it constructive. :)
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Re: My current issues with this game <3

Post by Rosseau »

Everyone probably knows this already, but figured I'd mention it anyway:

The editor allows much flexibility in adjusting C&C delay times per nation, and lots more.

So, editing the nation files, etc., may be an unrealistic, but possible quick-fix for those experiencing some frustrations.

Best wishes to all!
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Re: My current issues with this game <3

Post by WABAC »

22sec wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:57 pm
Darojax wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:09 am
cbelva wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:30 am I felt it needed a response.
Thanks for that. Any thoughts/comments on the fact that it's neigh on impossible to coordinate units to attack/move simultaneously due to estimated timings not being accurate (except if issued as part of the initial orders)?
The devs love looking in to the saved game files and can usually nail a problem quickly if one exist in the code.

I am always curious what effect the EW is causing. If there is no EW interference then moving units should be able to coordinate and move closer to the times planned. That's also where the shorter times between turns influences the game. I as the overall commander can check in and control my movement better. I know in-game if there is a heavy EW burden on my forces, coordinating and controlling my forces is more work, and more time consuming.

My favorite thing in any of these games is to lead a Soviet regiment in the assault. A key piece to being successful is coordination. I haven't done it in FC a few months, but perhaps next time I test I can look at this as well.

All the points you brought up had some merit, and I always seeing the discussion that ensues. I sometimes look at the current state of the engine and think of where CMANO was it's first year in release. There's a lot going on under the hood, there is a lot going on on-screen too, and all of us; the developers (OTS), contributors, and consumers are still learning. I have a lot of confidence that FC will mature over its life just as the Command series did.
EW is a much larger presence in the current game. And that is what the scenario designers have created. The OODA loop is noticeably longer for the NATO side in most scenarios compared to most scenarios in Red Storm. (This is only my anecdotal, top-of-the-head reaction. It has not been rigorously tested,or proved. :? :lol: )

So, to touch on the point made by Rousseau in this thread, fiddling the EW settings might be the first thing to look at if a player wants a more generous environment in a certain scenario.
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Re: My current issues with this game <3

Post by CapnDarwin »

We have a Developer meeting next week to review these and other comments and see what needs to be addressed and how we will go about it. Thanks for all of the inputs.
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LTD
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