Matrix Games Limits Retail and Expands Direct Sales

[ravinhood]

To Marc Schwanebeck: YES, just recently I purchased Squad Leader off of EBAY, the game did not include the "maps" for the game as was stated in the auction. I contacted the seller and he made his apologies and he paid for ALL the return shipping costs, plus refunded the FULL amount I paid for the game.

So YES, if you shop around for quality ebayers you get quality service from them. All it cost me was the time it took to repackage the item and take it to the post office. Which is about the same as having to return a game to a software outlet.

You see what EBAY has that you folks don't have is a REPORT CARD right there on the auction page. If you don't satisfy a customer on EBAY you get a bad REPORT CARD and once you get a bad report card, your business is ruined. You get some of that good OLD FASHIONED customer service on EBAY that you can hardly find anywhere else anymore, because that report card stays with you wherever you go on EBAY.

Also you say that is not supporting the company, well if the company is not going to support me the consumer and make it easy for me to purchase their games on my terms, then why should I support them? Now if you want to cut the prices of your games in HALF and sell them online, sure, I'll give that a go, cause if I get a flawed game, the cost of returning it is still less than if I had bought it retail. Otherwise I get the shaft. But, I doubt you are going to sell your games at half price. But, I do expect you will lose sales because of the turnaround from retail sales outlets.

I have no statistics on impulse buyers, but, there is a statistic out there on them. People tend to buy what they want, when they see it. If your product is not there at all to see, then you have reduced your advertisement of the game even more. You are basing your sole sales on internet traffic and most likely magazine ads and we all know the internet is so massive that it might take years before a perspective buyer might find out about your site or products. I know it took me years to find out about Wargamer.com and Matrix.com and I've been on the internet since 1996.

The next point and I brought this up about patches. Why does everyone have the idea that everyone that plays computer games "automatically" has an internet connection? It wasn't until 1996 that I ever even gave the internet a second thought. I've played computer games since 1982. I didn't require an internet connection to play them. If I had a problem with a game I could call up the company direct and they would help me through a patch or boot disc over the phone and if that didn't resolve the issue they would send me a floppy disk in the mail. Heh, you think they will do that nowadays? This system of making the consumer do everything is quite frustrating and personally I'm getting quite tired of it. It's my money that keeps a computer developer/publisher in business, not vice versa, so I do not understand the lack of customer interests when it comes to this industry. Especially the last five years or so of PAY ME NOW, WE'LL FIX IT LATER. That's one of my biggest gripes right there.

I'm tempted to convert to the consoles myself. At least you get something that works and doesn't require a patch, albeit a lot less choice of games. But, you don't have to mess with sound cards and video cards and hard-drives and PATCHES with them either. Sure you have to upgrade them after a few years, but, with the PC industry you have to upgrade every TWO years, the costs are just about equal nowadays, PC upgrade vs new console upgrade, run along the same tracks in cost.

It's your baby, your company, your decisions, but, I don't feel you are taking the interest of the consumer in mind when you pack up camp and leave them dry at the software outlets they are used to seeing your products located. Just my 2cents.

[Frank W.]

The Canadian government LOVES to stick their hands in our pockets every chance they get.

LOL seems our goverments have something in common [:(]

[Frank W.]

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Well, in england the PCgames still has massive shelf space.

In Germany too, but it´s shrinking big time at the media stores, I expect in the rest of Europe it won´t take long before this changes too. I was just today at ProMarkt (big electronics retailer chain here). I still remember the time when their console shelf was holding some 20 different titles and browsing through the PC Game shelf took you almost an hour. It´s the other way around now. In my home town Bonn we have only one specialist PC/Console Game store left (out of 3 last year).

mhh... in saturn + karstadt they have a quite big PC games
department, hope this stays this way.

also a EB store opened here last year, they have more
console titles but still much PC games. i was surprised
btw. to see "uncommon valor" in karstadt also i saw
korsun pocket somewhere. i hope at least war in the pacific
will be this easily available here, too. i really wainting
for this game....

also i think the virtual tour from HTTR is quite good, makes
me even curious about the game, but sadly my time and money
is to limited to buy/play as much games as wanted to[:(]

[Marc von Martial]

It's your baby, your company, your decisions, but, I don't feel you are taking the interest of the consumer in mind when you pack up camp and leave them dry at the software outlets they are used to seeing your products located. Just my 2cents.

You probably didn´t get the essence of what David is saying. We have no other choice [;)]. Staying retail with even more limited shelf space for PC Titles is´nt possible for wargames. It was a hard fight to actually getting into retail when they didn´t cut back the shelf space for PC titles. It simply doesn´t pay off and you end up with a fat negative balance, which isn´t really what we´re looking for [;)] , you might understand that.

We´re not EA Games or UBI Soft. Wargames is a small market, very small.

Also you say that is not supporting the company, well if the company is not going to support me the consumer and make it easy for me to purchase their games on my terms, then why should I support them?

Well, to have the future perspective of another few years with wargames? Ebay sales (I´m not saying people shouldn´t use Ebay at all, heck I use it myself) is not paying my bills. And if the bills aren´t payed by my current job the lady will probably say that I should look around to get a new one.

As for patches, yep I also remember the times when there were no pathces or only few. But that doesn´t mean that by that time patches where not needed. That was back then when the hardware versatility was not that promiment as today. Today you can go out and choose from lets say 25 different graphic cards that all use the "same" chip and have the same "specs" and "benchmarks", you can choose between tons of motherboards that have the "same" specifics. Then hardware companies update drivers in a 2 month cycle. Back in the mid 90s it was 5 motherboards and 5 graphic cards and maybe one or two driver updates. This is not making aprogrammers live easier.
Then also some games simply didn´t get patched, even if they needed patching [;)]. It´s not the Gary Grigsbys "Kampfgruppe" played flawless all the time.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: Frank W.
mhh... in saturn + karstadt they have a quite big PC games
department, hope this stays this way.

also a EB store opened here last year, they have more
console titles but still much PC games. i was surprised
btw. to see "uncommon valor" in karstadt also i saw
korsun pocket somewhere. i hope at least war in the pacific
will be this easily available here, too. i really wainting
for this game....

also i think the virtual tour from HTTR is quite good, makes
me even curious about the game, but sadly my time and money
is to limited to buy/play as much games as wanted to[:(]

Karstadt is still holding up the flag, thanks god. Here in Bonn I´m not even sure if they sell that much console stuff. Saturn will soon move to even more DVD and cut back to mainstream PC titles only. Karstadt and ProMarkt are selling our games of the shelf, but if you look closly you see one copy of UV next to 25 copies of COD or SIMS [;)]

Well, now with the soon to be openend Matrix Games European warehouse it will be very easy for you to obtain our titles.

[ravinhood]

You see, you are talking to someone that worked in one of those outlets, though it wasn't EBgames or Software etc. or Best buy. I was the software department manager of the company I worked for. I was responsible for keeping the shelves stocked with what SOLD. Not just whatever new piece of crap that came onto the market. So it's not like I couldn't stock whatever I felt like, that I felt would have turnaround in the PC department. And I did get turnaround with what I purchased. And yeah our console department was larger, there's what five different console types out there all requiring a different cartridge to play, sure there's going to be more space needed, we were supplying a massive entertainment product to the consumer, so we had to have more space for them. The problem was when I called my distributer and he says, sorry we don't have that game in stock, they are "direct" sales only. So it's not the retail outlets not giving you space, it might be you aren't dealing with enough distributers to get your products in that space.

When I went in an applied for that job, I told the owner I would double his software sales. If I didn't I would quit. And I did double it. You see before and in most software outlets here they have a bunch of punk kids who know nothing about the software. I went into Software etc. because I priced them and Ebgames and Best buy, so I could have matching prices when people came to our store, anyways, this punk kid is sitting in a chair behind the counter playing one of the video games, now this is the store clerk....I'm standing there looking at the PC games and from the CHAIR he asks me, "need any help"....lol, just cold and plain like he hoped I would say NO! lol Still sitting in that chair playing that video game, while there are customers in that store that might have needed some help. We aren't suppose to goto him, he should have been roaming and helping, not sitting on his butt playing a video game.

I made it a point to know about the games I had on my shelves. I read the magazine reviews, I visited forums, albeit I didn't and still don't take much quality information from them because they are too biased, I checked ebay prices to see if the game was holding it's own. If a game started to sink on ebay, I start dropping the number of copies I had on my shelves and looked for something else/new to replace it with.

I sold wargames and rts games and fps games alike. If I could get it and it was a quality game, I stocked it, if it was a crap game, it got left at the distributers. I'm sorry I'm not around for Matrix games today, or some of your games would get quality space, just like the wargames of old did. It's a lot more than just shelf space though. It's knowing the PRODUCT, I don't know how much that was warped into my head as I continued my career in the retail business. Product Knowledge sells, pointing to a shelf does not.

I probably could have asked that punk kid something about a console game and he might have known it, if he was interested in it. But, I would bet 100% he knew nothing about computer pc games, if they were any good, what age level recommended etc. etc. Best Buy has some pretty good kids, at least they will help you find something and don't just POINT you in a direction, if it's not on the shelf they will take you to a computer and look it up for you to see if it is available for purchase or order. But, they themselves know little about the game if you start asking them questions. You get replies like "It's written on the back of the box" lol Well what system requirements does it have? "Ummm I dunno, it's written on the back of the box" lol rofl PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE has gone bye bye in today's consumer market. People take a job for the income and having a job, no care, no interest, non goal oriented in learning what they are selling, at least in many of the businesses that I visit. I have to wonder if "developers" aren't following that same pattern. Just a place to flop their butts and draw an income, not really devoting themselves to creating quality products, as long as they are getting that paycheck they are happy?

I have since moved on and upwards into another field of sales, construction sales, it's lucrative and it's more in open spaces and traveling many places. heh that rhymes. For the time being I am on r & r due to a traffic accident. So it gives me plenty of time to come here and DEMAND MY RIGHTS! lol By gawd I deliver customer satisfaction, I demand it in return.

[Marc von Martial]

You seemed to have been a good sales man. I remember the times when the shop clerks actually knew about the stuff they did sell. These days you go to ProMarkt (or even smaller shops) and ask about seomthing, may it be a game, mobile phone, doesnßt matter and all you get back is some unqualified answer where you immediatly know the guy knows squat. I don´t know why this is so, since it becomes very very common in Germany. If you want to know something about a certain product, you´re well better of writing to the actuall developer for info material or search on the web for reviews. You go to a shop and ask for info or help and you´re lost.

Of course there are these specialist shops where you can go in and know they won´t bullshit you and actually give you valuable info. But these stores are also very expnsive for most of the time [;)]

Sad thing that the software shop I allways visited went belly up last year. You could actuall discuss with all the clerks and the shop owner there about games and they pointed you on other games that might have been of interest for you. Even freeware and such. Hell, you could even play the games there to try them out. Those guys were gamers in the first line. I spent a fortune at that shop , it didn´t help .

[Frank W.]

i must agree... i noticed that in the saturn market they have personal that doesn´t know
as much about the digi cams they sell than myself. and i´m even a beginner in digital
photography....the same with answering machines: " look at the box there you can find the features" [X(] the problem it seems ppl. don´t care much about the produts they sell. perhaps any knowledgable personal would need more pay, so the shops rather take cheap, but poor personal ?

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

My son and I walked up to Blockbuster last night. We rented some silly looking action game (well he did, it was dad saying come on kid lets go get ya a treat).

I think it was called SlyFox and the Thevious Racoonious (yeah weird name).

Cost me 6 bucks to rent it. By the end of the week he will have played the complete game (which is par for the course by the way). I will not be buying it.

Keep that phrase in mind, I will NOT be buying it.

Why bother, in a week he will have completed the game, and be ready to move on. Kids don't play these things endlessly once they beat them eh. I know.

What does that tell me? It tells me the reason these games don't have "patch or whatever trouble" is because they are not really the same at the software level.
Maybe they are just to plain simple. I don't know.

But looking at the OOB traffic connected with Steel Panthers, and it is quite apparent, that with wargames, it is not really always the software that matters, but the attention to nit picking details.
I won't play a wargame sold as a serious historical wargame if it looks like a comical farce disguised as a historical reenactment with some what if potential.
I have been playing SC, and as a game it is stable, as a simulation it has a few quirks. It is possible to fix most of those qirks with easily mentioned gentlemens agreements.
Strategic Command is easily a good purchase.

I am not sure it would be hard to make a game like SC for console, but consoles don't make wargames for us grognards much. And no, I am not entering the shooter ain't wargame debate. When I say wargame essentially I am talking about turns, and moving pieces around.

On the subject of "finding anything on the internet" I guess it just depends on whether you are any good using a search engine.
Ever try to ask anyone to identify what you thought was a clever thing? The other day I made a reference to Liet Kynes. It was no challenge though. You just do a search for that name, and the whole thing is blown away easy.

I will miss retail, as I grew up with it. But it is no longer efficient enough for my needs.
Now I think the task ahead of Matrix Games, is in finding clever locations to drop their name so it appears in front of the eyes of atypical customer types (like me).
First suggestion, find a way to get the Matrix Games label into the Military Bookclub bulletin, even if all you get is a small piece of a page. Might costs a couple of bucks, but the only people looking at that flier, will be hardcore military enthusiasts (like me).
Highly targeted marketing.

[ravinhood]

Advertising in Strategy & Tactics probably wouldn't be a bad idea either.

And I MIGHT, I say MIGHT give Matrix a chance and try ONE just ONE direct sale and so help me if I get a faulty copy of a game, I'm flying to whereever you guys are and I'm gonna GIVE IT TO YOU GOOD! lol

[Firefly]

ORIGINAL: Frank W.

The Canadian government LOVES to stick their hands in our pockets every chance they get.

LOL seems our goverments have something in common [:(]

I bought a two software items via download the other week from the States and got charged VAT (Value Added Tax - an EU sales tax) on the transactions. Like the man said, there are only two certain things in life, death and taxes.

I'm pleased to see the announcement from David though, I'd much rather see more of my money go to the devs rather than middle men, but the shipping costs put me off doing it with Matrix games in the past.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

My only actual Matrix Games purchase ever was Mega Campaign Lost Vicories.

I bought it through a Texas girlfriend before Matrix Games had managed to conquer shelf space.
She allowed me to get it for 2 bucks additional, instead of the then reported 21 bucks for crossing the border.

It was a modest simple cd packaged in a humble card stock cd sleeve.

I mail all my cds that way actually. cd enclosed in a card stock sleeve inside a bubblewrap mailer. Only way to improve that, is jewel case inside a cd box mailer.

I have not yet played all the way through Lost Victories yet, its a big MC. But I have played it enough to know it was a most definitely solid purchase. And that even knowing it needed a few patch ups.

According to Rich, there is a few cosmetic omissions absent, and Brent has failed to get to them. I have massively enjoyed the game though, and I have not even made it to that part of the game even yet as now.
Worrying over something like that, is to much like work. But Rich had promises made to him, and maybe it was the unfullfilled promises that count, and not some dumb missing pictures.
Never make promises you can't keep is good advice.

MC LV cost me something like 35 bucks I think (that's Canadian eh). I don't fully remember right now.
One of my best wargame purchases ever though.
One of the hardest wargames I have ever played.
It's a grand thrill taking your Panzer IIIs into battle and hoping those indestructible KVs don't appear "just now".
I have fought battles where every darned weapon counted, there were no weapons that weren't effective. You needed everything, and some battles are only one through sheer determination from your entire force.

MC LV was never sold to me on a shelf.
And I have bought games off the shelf, and none of them has equalled my purchase of MC LV. Some have come close.

I was able to get Operational Art of War Elite Edition Volume 1 out of the bargain bin for a song. I would have not minded paying full price for that.
I bought the Century of War edition online. Cost me 80 bucks Canadian after all the due process was done (another re route from Texas too).
I would never have been able to get that off a shelf. And it is my current top ranked operational title in my collection.

I have really only bought wargames out of bargain bins eh. I have yet to pay full ticket for a wargame at the store.

If I had the actual cash, I am sure I would have achieved several other purchases from Matrix Games. I like the product, I just lack the funds.

But I know Matrix Games is here. So I am not a good indication of how well Matrix Games is gaining outside recognition.
I think that should be the next major thresshold.
Matrix Games has already demonstrated they are serious about their wargames.
Now they need to impress me with their advertising savvy (outside of forums).

[Mr.Frag]

I fully support you going Digital Delivery - means more money in your & the developers pocket which in turn translates to better returns on investment and means you'll stay in business which is a very good thing.

The flip side to this is you will need to court the review sites better then you do now, ensuring good placement and lots of fresh people seeing and reading all about you and your games. War Gaming is a small group, we need fresh blood added to keep things going as we age and die off. With the larger companies completely stopping production of anything of this nature, our world does not get much press. We need to agressively fight this trend or there really will be no one left.

With CD Writers dropping in price to where they are hardly more expensive then readers these days, it seems to be the way to go. You can have an optional media service that lets people who do not have broadband access or burner access to get their games for an added charge (since you have an added cost at your end to make a coaster and ship it).

By shipping in the good old brown paper wrapper, you will bypass a lot of the ugly customs situations as you are only shipping a BACKUP copy of something that was purchased at your web site. Backup media should be exempt from 95% of the ugly customs folks who make us hate mail order.

[U2]

I think this is just great! I will now be able to order Squad Assault and AA:HTTR directly from Matrix without the huge shipping costs + swedish tax. Thank you! Oh and next week I hope to buy and download Campaigns on the Danube if it is released on time... [:)]

[ravinhood]

I bought a two software items via download the other week from the States and got charged VAT (Value Added Tax - an EU sales tax) on the transactions.

You had to pay TAX on a DOWNLOAD? Man where's the TEA PARTY, I think it's time for another one!!! heh Taxation without representation!! REVOLUTION anyone? lol

[David Heath]

Hi Firefly

We are well aware of the shipping issues and are taken steps to make it affordable.

David

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Well, in england the PCgames still has massive shelf space.

It's a lot less than it was. As somebody said (*), the sales are actually up, but the console game sales are going up faster. With the margins on PC games being lower anyway (not to mention troubles with returns etc), retailers like GAME are just devoting more space to the more profitable merchandise.

It's the folks like Matrix who get squeezed out, so the approach they are taking seems right to me. Personally, I'm delighted.. I always like to order direct when I can as I'd rather my cash went straight to the developers rather than middle-men, but the daft shipping policy to Europe has, until now, made that a non-starter.


* the proviso on that is sales of the "big" games are up. People seem much less willing to experiment with their purchases, and a lot of very good games aren't selling because they havn't had the necessary hype. That's always been the case, but now even "reasonable" sales won't guarantee shelf space.

[DerekP]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I bought a two software items via download the other week from the States and got charged VAT (Value Added Tax - an EU sales tax) on the transactions.

You had to pay TAX on a DOWNLOAD? Man where's the TEA PARTY, I think it's time for another one!!! heh Taxation without representation!! REVOLUTION anyone? lol

It's a sales tax in the EU which was always payable but US and Canadian companies sometimes "forgot" to apply it and the customs in Europe didn't chase them for it. Now since an agreement last year they have to do it.

It'll reach the States and Canada soon.

[ravinhood]

Are you serious? The States are going to have to pay a VAT? I haven't heard of any of this?

[DerekP]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Are you serious? The States are going to have to pay a VAT? I haven't heard of any of this?

No, the States is going to collect VAT for the EU. Or should do for internet sales.

http://www.hmce.gov.uk/forms/graphics/info0103-3.pdf