OK the game is set up and sent ..here is what i am finding so far ...historic rating off so i could set troop quality at 70 for both sides then national characteristics off and true troop cost off American stuff is more expensive ( details in a minute) i experimented a bit with troop quaity at 70 and either national characterstics OR true troop costs on I pay full price for a M-10 wolverine 125 points exactly like it says in the OOB editor with both off I pay 125 points as well BUT with BOTH on I pay 91 points a considerable discount from list price ..on the other hand , the germans and tigers cost 169 with either one on but 182 points ( dang i lost my notes about 182 points i think ) thats MORE than list price... if both are on ..lets skip the arguement over what stuff should cost for a minute in terms of base price and just focus on what is making the interaction of the national chacteristics and true troop cost when both on effect the pricing when neither effect the buy cost seperately
further experimentation tells me that both U S and Germans have values that make sense in relationship to the listed variable leadership ratings once you look at the unit info screen in the actual game on the map if only one of the two ( national characteristics/ true troops costs) is on.. But much higher it seems to me actual value points when you look in the unit info screen actually in the game on the map when both are on... maybe this is a clue
details of what i bought ..( packrat don't peak) i bought what i usually bought except i got one platoon of M-10's less so overall about a 10-15 percent price increase
Super Americans in SPWAW 4.5
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
OK side issue what should stuff cost what percentage of what ,say a, Tiger costs should a Wolverine cost. Right now 4 Tigers cost 676 points for that you can but 5 1/3 Wolverines ? Given the differences ( and i know all about the max 255 points thingy) wolverine has less than half the armor about half the sights is open topped and a gun about two thirds (IMHO)the gun and was more common overall than a Tiger .. so this is just an open question ..whats a fair price to you the reader of this post ... maybe this should eventually be a seperate topic but for now since we are here
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
Keep in Mind i am focusing on the cost of the units as an indicator of what kind of actual effect that experience /morale/leadership is having in the game play itself and Keep in mind that the game hasn't started at this point so how all this effects the actual play of the game between these two forces is still unknown ..
on the face of things the US is upped to 70/70/70 from 70/70/65 so they should be MORE effective ... they better be because the Germans are going to be cheaper and therefore more targets LOL
on the face of things the US is upped to 70/70/70 from 70/70/65 so they should be MORE effective ... they better be because the Germans are going to be cheaper and therefore more targets LOL
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
Good homework there!!!! I want to point out that this point thing in and of itself is a problem in PBEM if i buy a wolverine in a standard 43 game for 91 points and the german gets 140 points for killing it.. then the German side is getting about a 50% bonus in end of game points while a 180+ point Tiger gives the american about 220 in victory points a 20% bonus so in fact roughly in a 4000 point game if the Germans kill all the americans they can get 6000+ victory points just on kills while the american if they kill all the germans can only get about 4800 round numbers that has to be skewing games that are close to draw/ win or lose/draw in the Germans Favor i mean i know in league it is german v german and american v american for standings but the win/lose/draw thingy counts for braging rights again this problem seems to be favoring the Germans more than the Americans at this point ..
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
I'm lighter in armor this time around as well, only 6 Tigers, the rest in SS and FJ. My artillery is my standard 2 rocket groups with ammo trucks and one 150mm group. I expect my standard American artillery pounding in about 2 turns depending on when she spots me although the battle lines are a bit closer this time due to the visablity so it may be sooner. Oh yeah I put some battle points into AA as well.
------------------
PR
http://electricwar.tripod.com/
------------------
PR
http://electricwar.tripod.com/
PR
I'm going to share what happens after Packrat gets to see it .. but suffice to say even with these experimental settings it looks like the Allies can still make the Axis Howl in pain... wait for it wait for it .I'm sure PackRat will be posting soon
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
Lead recon elements of a Airborne Bn dropped into the enemy rear and discovered 2 batteries of Wulfraums covered by Flak >>The Flak is causing Heavy Casualties amongst the recon but over half the wulfrauns and ammo trucks have been destroyed saving countless lives
This minimum range issue needs looking at i had wulfraums opfiring at ajacent hexes ...thats inside the damage circle for thier rockets ... they don't seem to do much damage up that close but they should be at least suppressing themselves and i don't think it is physically possible for them to acually fire that close shouldn't they have a minimum range of about 20 or something ?? same with 80mm /3 inch mortars and up something like 4-6 range minimum but with the mortars i figure hey the crew are probably using small arms or something ..but with wulfraums i don't think anybody but suppressed tanks crews carry weapondry that can simulate 280mm flame rockets seriously wulfies need a minimum range
I had some suppressed recon that didn't rally back as well as usual but not enough units supressed ralled yet to really tell over all rally seems about the same maybe a little slower .. but maybe not i may be over analysing here
This minimum range issue needs looking at i had wulfraums opfiring at ajacent hexes ...thats inside the damage circle for thier rockets ... they don't seem to do much damage up that close but they should be at least suppressing themselves and i don't think it is physically possible for them to acually fire that close shouldn't they have a minimum range of about 20 or something ?? same with 80mm /3 inch mortars and up something like 4-6 range minimum but with the mortars i figure hey the crew are probably using small arms or something ..but with wulfraums i don't think anybody but suppressed tanks crews carry weapondry that can simulate 280mm flame rockets
seriously wulfies need a minimum range I had some suppressed recon that didn't rally back as well as usual but not enough units supressed ralled yet to really tell over all rally seems about the same maybe a little slower .. but maybe not i may be over analysing here
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
It's not just the US troops. In my mathemathics the hit chances that come up in the play do not match. Human player does not get those chances that computer tell you to have and AI on the contrary has better chances than the persentages given. But US is worst. It is not that big problem when playing them yourself but if AI plays them it is a mess. The US 75mm becomes more effective than the German 75mm43 and that is not wery realistic. I have played all major powers and some of the smaller ones but the US as AI is much too good compared to the AI as German or Soviet or British.
I often do tests like making a save and then shooting and making a save again. Then I reload the situation and replay it and my calculations often come to conclusion that 20% chance is more like 13% chance. But you learn to live with it allthough sometimes it drives you nuts.
I often do tests like making a save and then shooting and making a save again. Then I reload the situation and replay it and my calculations often come to conclusion that 20% chance is more like 13% chance. But you learn to live with it allthough sometimes it drives you nuts.
I do agree with a minimum range for the rockets, if it's possible. In wiping out a recon unit near a flak group with a rocket it did cause suppression 2 hexes away.
I'm not seeing anything I wouldn't expect rally wise, some do and some don't. Leadship being the biggest facter is my guess at the moment. I'm not sure I understand completly what makes suppression jump real high say 11 after one shot but yet the same type of shot another time won't move it as far. Perhaps leadership is playing a passive role here? Perhaps how close the shots come to the unit are reflected in the numbers. I do regret that I didn't get any regular rifle squads to compare and I would suggest if anyone else is trying this at home to get a broader range of units.
------------------
PR
http://electricwar.tripod.com/
I'm not seeing anything I wouldn't expect rally wise, some do and some don't. Leadship being the biggest facter is my guess at the moment. I'm not sure I understand completly what makes suppression jump real high say 11 after one shot but yet the same type of shot another time won't move it as far. Perhaps leadership is playing a passive role here? Perhaps how close the shots come to the unit are reflected in the numbers. I do regret that I didn't get any regular rifle squads to compare and I would suggest if anyone else is trying this at home to get a broader range of units.
------------------
PR
http://electricwar.tripod.com/
PR
How about.... once you have buried your head in the sand from the first shot, you can't get any closer to the ground when the next one goes off.Originally posted by Pack Rat:
<SNIP>
I'm not sure I understand completly what makes suppression jump real high say 11 after one shot but yet the same type of shot another time won't move it as far. Perhaps leadership is playing a passive role here? Perhaps how close the shots come to the unit are reflected in the numbers.
Looks like infantry on Infantry contact is starting up German 150mm are raining down on lead positions US 155 have taken up fire support airborne scouts continue search for remaining wulfraums and German HQ i have a few questions for those guys ... Scouts are requesting air to take out the remaining wulfraums Once again the game favors the Germans they get their Muliple rocket launchers but even though this map is calling itself Salerno the US is getting no naval fire support and the US does not have access to 8' hows or long Toms to counterbattery But despite the advantages the germans have Better Armor excesive arty support the US is pressing the Attack ...
The US should have access to those weapons systems that bettered the Germans Like Arty and effective air the air selection in 43 is all anti personel oriented which will work great here since the flak seems busy in the rear but typically the Germans are all Tigers and Panthers and i am sure some variant of aircraft with rockets is available in late 43 for the US .. When the US armor is priced on par or close to it with better German tanks then the US should have access to it's superior Arty for balance ... IMHO any thoughts from anybody on the pricing i have mentioned this before I am Taking the German alegations seriously that something is not right to their detriment ... in all fairness the inequites that the Americans suffer under should be addressed as well IMHO
In Particular the Germans are quick to claim that Tigers a 5 times better than Shermans i would settle for Shermans costing 2 1/2 times what a Tiger costs Wolverines about the same If the German Armor Really is that much Better why aren't the German players hollering for cheaper Targets and taking this pricing thing serious .. but some how i don't think it is going to happen
[This message has been edited by AmmoSgt (edited February 25, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by AmmoSgt (edited February 25, 2001).]
The US should have access to those weapons systems that bettered the Germans Like Arty and effective air the air selection in 43 is all anti personel oriented which will work great here since the flak seems busy in the rear but typically the Germans are all Tigers and Panthers and i am sure some variant of aircraft with rockets is available in late 43 for the US .. When the US armor is priced on par or close to it with better German tanks then the US should have access to it's superior Arty for balance ... IMHO any thoughts from anybody on the pricing i have mentioned this before I am Taking the German alegations seriously that something is not right to their detriment ... in all fairness the inequites that the Americans suffer under should be addressed as well IMHO
In Particular the Germans are quick to claim that Tigers a 5 times better than Shermans i would settle for Shermans costing 2 1/2 times what a Tiger costs Wolverines about the same If the German Armor Really is that much Better why aren't the German players hollering for cheaper Targets and taking this pricing thing serious .. but some how i don't think it is going to happen
[This message has been edited by AmmoSgt (edited February 25, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by AmmoSgt (edited February 25, 2001).]
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
Excessive artillery? give me a break. Now that the reinforcements have arrived I have excessive artillery. You ain't seen nothing yet...
------------------
PR
http://electricwar.tripod.com/
------------------
PR
http://electricwar.tripod.com/
PR
Yeah since the Allies are not allowed to have their long range arty because it would be unfair to the germans for anybody to have any equipment that was better than germans regardless of history the allies have no counterbattery capeability that can't in turn be counterbatteried and naturally it would be unfair for the Americans to have cheaper arty with more ammo regardless of history because that would give the Americans some sort of advantage for the Germans to whine about ... and of course this all has to be balanced so that the Germans have a even chance to win in Italy because they were so well supplied and had more and better equipment and if the german's don't get it they whine after all the Germans had a real shot at winning in Italy theywere never outnumbered or suffered from bad supply or any of that never had morale problems because the U S was killing their wives and children at home with bombers happy well fed germans with all the ammo they want just like americans ,, In fact i have a message here from the offical german news relaease saying after the afrika corp surrendered and the Italians surrendered german morale went up 50 % ...
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
the Game continues and yes excessive arty infantry on infantry at this point with the germans using atleast 2 Bn of 150mm to support a BN of infantry... this is the kind of thing that gives me an attitude ,,there is a History with these threads the evil american arty is a prime example .. first the US can't have LongTom 155's because they can't be counterbatteried and the US can't have a realistic larger ammo supply for their guns than the germans for what in all fairness should be around the same price for twice the ammo per tube to reflect a realistic balance in nation capability and the US can't have their 4.5 inch Rockets on board at all so they can be reloaded like wulfraums and a thread much like this one about 8" that the soviets and U S and British Have can't be in the game because it isn't fair somehow so we have equality in calibers and ammo loads and we give the US less choice of arty so the Germans can have a chance and then When an Allied player says ok lets test another percieved unfairness to germans the german players flaunts past whining thread victories with the arty .. another example over on the OOB thread APCR ammo for 88L71's was rare so the game gave it to Jagd Panthers but nor King Tigers Geman players complained and now everything with an 88 gets APCR ..Imagine if the British in 43 started complaining that the 17lbers on the Sherman IC's don't have APCR ( they don't ) but the 17lbers on the Achilles do but for the Allies that didn't have the same shortages that the germans did and that didn't have the same degree of rarity with APCR started complaining nope ... too... rare can't have it might kill a German tank .. I am trying to be fair .. you want a fair game, then be fair to both sides .. if the germans want everybody to jump thru hoops so that german armor can be invincibe just like it is in Hollywood then try and be a little fair with letting the americans have a choice of arty and onboard stuff they actualy had and give the Americans, especially, extra arty ammo to refelect the fact that germans had to put up with a heck of a lot more arty than the americans do ...but nope ain't gonna happen i can see it now ..I have tried to bring this stuff up from time to time ... at least some of it ... and the Allies just can't win the whining contest on the boards
As to this morale leadership issue , i don't get that either , Italy 43 right ? afrika corp just surrendered Italy surendered russia ain't going well Germany is way deeper into the national manpower pool .. where does the elite morale expectation come from .. the Allies are winning .. they took north africa supplies are pouring into england took Sicily getting a real good track record at kicking German Butt Late 43 Pacific is turning around nicely the Americans aren't worried about their familes getting bombed and killed but the German Morale is supposed to be Higher explain this to me ...
Anyway yes Packrat the German players won the arty whining contest and yes while trying to work out what is fair for the Germans i mind having my faced rubbed in it.
At some point this has to stop if the Germans want whatever advantages they can document fine , but they have to quit asking the Allies to give up Historic advantage under the guise of a balanced game
As to this morale leadership issue , i don't get that either , Italy 43 right ? afrika corp just surrendered Italy surendered russia ain't going well Germany is way deeper into the national manpower pool .. where does the elite morale expectation come from .. the Allies are winning .. they took north africa supplies are pouring into england took Sicily getting a real good track record at kicking German Butt Late 43 Pacific is turning around nicely the Americans aren't worried about their familes getting bombed and killed but the German Morale is supposed to be Higher explain this to me ...
Anyway yes Packrat the German players won the arty whining contest and yes while trying to work out what is fair for the Germans i mind having my faced rubbed in it.
At some point this has to stop if the Germans want whatever advantages they can document fine , but they have to quit asking the Allies to give up Historic advantage under the guise of a balanced game
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
One of the reoccuring rationalizations that something is off in the game ..is that the germans are doing so well against the Russians just as expected and then Bingo the americans show up and it doesn't go as well all of a sudden i mean T-43's were better than Shermans and ect so why is it different ..it must be something with the americans ect..
Well chew on this
Soviets roughly 9 million combat dead
Germany roughly 3 million combat dead
US roughly 300,000 dead
not knowing exactly how the German casualities were divided between the eastern and western fronts is not important to my fundamental point basicaly Germans Killed Rusians in multiples of German losses and Allies killing ( Britian a little under 400,000 depending on who you ask ) Germans in Multiples of Allied Deaths captured numbers have the same basic trend with million of russian and germans captured and 100,000's of allies
Basically if you are used to killing 2 or 3 or 5 to 1 against the Russians you will notice a difference in the Game if, all of a sudden the German is the one being killed in mulitples .....BUT thats doesn't make the game wrong The Game wasn't wrong when the Germans were killing Rusians 4 to 1 and history bears that out ...why now, when history reflects the same kinda Kill ratios that the Germans are complaining about is it all of a sudden the game is wrong ???
What am i missing ..as surely as a tiger tanks gun is better than the gun on a M4a1 the US had More Arty and Arty Ammo than the germans did .. and it is just as important to the Americans that they have their arty and ammo ADVANTAGE as it is for a tigers gun ADVANTAGE to be modeled correctly ....I don't care if the German player wants to have more arty if the german player pays a reflective price ... but when the whole purpose of the test game is to work out a possible bug , and part of the deterimination of if there is a bug, is if the german does better and the german goes and uses another IMBALANCE as critical to the battlefield as if all of the tigers were armed with 37mm instead of 88's , that being the restriction is US arty type price and ammo load , ... or wait do you guys think some how the germans had half the arty and had 1/5th as much ammo as the US did .. get a grip ...anyway if it was a Problem the US was Having and to Test it we mickey with the setting to test the problem but then on top of it decide all the german Tigers would only have 37mm guns would the German players say it was a fair test with mutualy cooperating players were the tables reversed ... this is not a competion game this was supposed to be a test game to check out a morale maybe something problem not to show that if we made the german units cheaper that the germans could buy more artilery and then plan on saying well you see the german won when the settings were fair .... a good gaming model with good data should give you on the overall average some feel for how the actual war went it basicaly went the russians died in multiples or germans and the germans died in mutiples of allies and thats what the game is showing ..the Germans just want to do as well in the west as they do in the east .. you simply can't do that on a computer if you insist on using the same formulas for both fronts and the same conventions it would be a gross distortion if the Germans did as well against the west as a rule as against the Soviets . It is that simple , using the same formula same unit rating system the same physics you can't have a valid model that could reliably give you the same results on both fronts ....
Well chew on this
Soviets roughly 9 million combat dead
Germany roughly 3 million combat dead
US roughly 300,000 dead
not knowing exactly how the German casualities were divided between the eastern and western fronts is not important to my fundamental point basicaly Germans Killed Rusians in multiples of German losses and Allies killing ( Britian a little under 400,000 depending on who you ask ) Germans in Multiples of Allied Deaths captured numbers have the same basic trend with million of russian and germans captured and 100,000's of allies
Basically if you are used to killing 2 or 3 or 5 to 1 against the Russians you will notice a difference in the Game if, all of a sudden the German is the one being killed in mulitples .....BUT thats doesn't make the game wrong The Game wasn't wrong when the Germans were killing Rusians 4 to 1 and history bears that out ...why now, when history reflects the same kinda Kill ratios that the Germans are complaining about is it all of a sudden the game is wrong ???
What am i missing ..as surely as a tiger tanks gun is better than the gun on a M4a1 the US had More Arty and Arty Ammo than the germans did .. and it is just as important to the Americans that they have their arty and ammo ADVANTAGE as it is for a tigers gun ADVANTAGE to be modeled correctly ....I don't care if the German player wants to have more arty if the german player pays a reflective price ... but when the whole purpose of the test game is to work out a possible bug , and part of the deterimination of if there is a bug, is if the german does better and the german goes and uses another IMBALANCE as critical to the battlefield as if all of the tigers were armed with 37mm instead of 88's , that being the restriction is US arty type price and ammo load , ... or wait do you guys think some how the germans had half the arty and had 1/5th as much ammo as the US did .. get a grip ...anyway if it was a Problem the US was Having and to Test it we mickey with the setting to test the problem but then on top of it decide all the german Tigers would only have 37mm guns would the German players say it was a fair test with mutualy cooperating players were the tables reversed ... this is not a competion game this was supposed to be a test game to check out a morale maybe something problem not to show that if we made the german units cheaper that the germans could buy more artilery and then plan on saying well you see the german won when the settings were fair .... a good gaming model with good data should give you on the overall average some feel for how the actual war went it basicaly went the russians died in multiples or germans and the germans died in mutiples of allies and thats what the game is showing ..the Germans just want to do as well in the west as they do in the east .. you simply can't do that on a computer if you insist on using the same formulas for both fronts and the same conventions it would be a gross distortion if the Germans did as well against the west as a rule as against the Soviets . It is that simple , using the same formula same unit rating system the same physics you can't have a valid model that could reliably give you the same results on both fronts ....
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
look i know i am obsessing , it happens, but lets look september 43 salerno not a giant beachhead but allied air superiority for the most part no prebombardment but naval support available at the invasion on Sep 9th thru 14th ok in the game no ability whatsoever to counterbattery german 150mm guns that can't be counterbatteried right back allies are allowed no naval support No 8" No 155LongToms batteries No air stikes on german Batteries ... is that fair yeah it's about as fair as tigers and Shermans having the same gun and the same armor .. but who do you hear complaining about arty effectiveness , the German players , give the germans wulfraums all day long and i don't complain i find a way to take them out .. I used B-17's once they tried B-17's for that kinda thingy they are going to take the B-17's out of the game but not the wulfraums wulfraums weren't that common but like tigers they are in every game i have played lately and why not what the heck ....if the US does use the arty it has the german players want to limit it so both sides can get the same ammount thats only fair same with air I mean does the german players get the same kinda thrill from winning after they have restricted the allies advantages in air and arty down to a fair balanced equal thing ? just asking ?
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
*snip lots of crap* posted by AmmoSgt:
Shut up !
If you have something "constructive" to say, especially about the OOBs, do so.
If you could "calm down" to a point where you can do any more serious testing, do so.
If not, turn off your computer and go into your backyard, start shooting tin cans or something !
Arralen
[This message has been edited by Arralen (edited February 26, 2001).]
Shut up !
If you have something "constructive" to say, especially about the OOBs, do so.
If you could "calm down" to a point where you can do any more serious testing, do so.
If not, turn off your computer and go into your backyard, start shooting tin cans or something !
Arralen
[This message has been edited by Arralen (edited February 26, 2001).]
AMD FX-4300
Gigabyte 970A-DS3P
Kingston 24GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800)
Asus GTX 750 Ti OC 2GB GDDR5
Kingston SV300 120 GB
Windows 8.1
Gigabyte 970A-DS3P
Kingston 24GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800)
Asus GTX 750 Ti OC 2GB GDDR5
Kingston SV300 120 GB
Windows 8.1
Ok well i certainly appreciate your caring attitude Arrelens but to make it easier could you be a bit more specfic than "snips alot of crap"
I have been to the OOB forum In the thread where german players were complaining about US Arty cost ammo loads and it was decided and announce that anything that can shoot farther than a german 150mm would be withdrawn from the game the german player complaints were addressed and fixes promised I ask then and i ask again that since the way it was worded originally was that anything larger than 155mm would be removed from the game except for secanrio design i mentioned that the US had a 155mm long tom that would fit the new criteria and still allow the US it's historic arty range advantage just like a tigers gun being better than a Shermans is a historic adavantage my request went inanswered ignored no response germans were promised fixes ... when it was ammo load outs for offboard i mentioned that the US should have more ammo per tube to reflect nation characteritics of large ammo supply and more ferquent use of arty and a bullit first goes where where a squad could go ect.. german complaints about US having to much arty granted everybody gets the same ammo per tube and the prices are upped so less can be bought and everything is fair and neutralizes any US historic adavantge and prevents massive US use not because that it didn't happen and didn't happen often but because it wasn't fair thicker armoe on a tiger than on Sherman is fair but not and artilery inbalance my comment ignored unaddressed
naval guns nobody needs them ( the senario in play for the test is Salerno ) germans don't have any to start with that were used for any serious shore bambardment not like normandy or any other amphib landing .. so why should anybody have them at all i said hey everybody ignored it when brought up gentile and all .. why would i go back to the OOB forum?
german kill point bonus same thing 4000 point PBEM game sep 43 germans get 6000 vpoints for killing 4000 points of americans american can get about 4800 tops for killing 4000 points of germans this skews Victory points for win lose draw for the germans i ask why i get told to shut up ?
I realize that my opinions here are not reproduciable and specific and as credible as "i drove a sherman thru infanrty and got hit 14 times with rifles grenades and got NO suppresion "..i mean recreate that little tank run ,anybody can do most everytime , the fact that the US had better arty and it has been systematicaly been disassemble by a progession of complaints that it is unfair or unbalnced or too effective whether by design or coincidence is a fact. The arguements have been on the boards, the promises made the inquires ignored .
The whole allied cost per unit HVSS cost more than Tigers or Panthers US M3 halftrack costing as much as german ignored excused unaddressed just answer the questions the first time
Thank you for your kind attention
I have been to the OOB forum In the thread where german players were complaining about US Arty cost ammo loads and it was decided and announce that anything that can shoot farther than a german 150mm would be withdrawn from the game the german player complaints were addressed and fixes promised I ask then and i ask again that since the way it was worded originally was that anything larger than 155mm would be removed from the game except for secanrio design i mentioned that the US had a 155mm long tom that would fit the new criteria and still allow the US it's historic arty range advantage just like a tigers gun being better than a Shermans is a historic adavantage my request went inanswered ignored no response germans were promised fixes ... when it was ammo load outs for offboard i mentioned that the US should have more ammo per tube to reflect nation characteritics of large ammo supply and more ferquent use of arty and a bullit first goes where where a squad could go ect.. german complaints about US having to much arty granted everybody gets the same ammo per tube and the prices are upped so less can be bought and everything is fair and neutralizes any US historic adavantge and prevents massive US use not because that it didn't happen and didn't happen often but because it wasn't fair thicker armoe on a tiger than on Sherman is fair but not and artilery inbalance my comment ignored unaddressed
naval guns nobody needs them ( the senario in play for the test is Salerno ) germans don't have any to start with that were used for any serious shore bambardment not like normandy or any other amphib landing .. so why should anybody have them at all i said hey everybody ignored it when brought up gentile and all .. why would i go back to the OOB forum?
german kill point bonus same thing 4000 point PBEM game sep 43 germans get 6000 vpoints for killing 4000 points of americans american can get about 4800 tops for killing 4000 points of germans this skews Victory points for win lose draw for the germans i ask why i get told to shut up ?
I realize that my opinions here are not reproduciable and specific and as credible as "i drove a sherman thru infanrty and got hit 14 times with rifles grenades and got NO suppresion "..i mean recreate that little tank run ,anybody can do most everytime , the fact that the US had better arty and it has been systematicaly been disassemble by a progession of complaints that it is unfair or unbalnced or too effective whether by design or coincidence is a fact. The arguements have been on the boards, the promises made the inquires ignored .
The whole allied cost per unit HVSS cost more than Tigers or Panthers US M3 halftrack costing as much as german ignored excused unaddressed just answer the questions the first time
Thank you for your kind attention
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
dang i forgot the whole thing about onboard US Russian Brit mutiple rocket launchers you know it has been mentioned ... what was the answer again ? heheeee see ....
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which