disappointed!!

[scorryuk]

That was part of my problem at start, too offensive. Takes time to appreciate that you cant just charge in all guns blazing. Also big change in pace from all other games I`ve ever played. Everything takes time, planning and complete attention to detail.

[m10bob]

IMHO this is one of the finest wargames ever created.
IMHO,the oldest problem with this game,is the absolute and inexcusable(IMHO)ability to designate "target-types" when launching carrier aircraft.[:(]

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

That was part of my problem at start, too offensive. Takes time to appreciate that you cant just charge in all guns blazing. Also big change in pace from all other games I`ve ever played. Everything takes time, planning and complete attention to detail.

Exactly my opinion on this game, certainly the best wargame I have ever played, even if it is frustating sometimes. Current version (2.20) is far batter than the first and Matrix did a great job to improve the game, taking in account the players complains and questions here on this forum. Sadly, no new patch until WitP is in the sales box.

I'm a far more organized and cautious player now. I would say that out of five major operations I plan and began to organize, two are cancelled, one or two delayed and the other worked as planned. I no longer continue to advance when there is a "minor" problem (for example, I don't know anymore where the enemy CV are, or I was seen before I had planned to or a TK is late and so on).

It's the first time I made paper plans for a computer wargame. I would say that for a major landing, preparations in the game (putting troops, planes and ships at the good place and good time, aerial recons and bombings and so on) will begin at least one month before the landing. So my planning is, for example in an IJN scen 17:

Objective: take Port Moresby

When: when IJN will have at least 6 CV. A look on the reinforcements page, should be OK on 1st July in Truk, so invasion date will be 10 July.

OK that means that my incasion convoys will sail from Rabaul on the 3 July and from Truk on the 25 June.

That means that I would need x transports on these bases some days before (loading and refueling) time, with enough escorts. The troops, supplies and fuel necessary should be there. And some planes to cover them.
To know how much transports you nedd, you have to choose the units taking part and then find how much tons AP you need and so on.

All forces (combat and transports) may need a TK resplenishment fleet.

I can planify an ASW operation just before the convoy sails.

For an invasion in PM, the best place to base air support is Lae, so there should be aenough AA, fighters, air base and engineer personnel and supplies there to be operationnal. Of course, all this should be done before the transports are needed for the PM invasion, so finished on 10 or 15 June.

Then you have to plan, the secondary operations (for example seizing Gili Gili to have an harbour where put your damaged ships, and capturing Lea Lea and Buna so the PM garnison has no retreat path), the submarines, etc, etc..

Last but not least, you have to planify what you will do after the operation. 2nd wave fresh troops for garnison, air base and engineers units to use the base, new supply convoys, maybe a TK convoy if you want to use the port....

So in a scen 17 to take a defended PM, you may consider two months of preparation (that may mean a lot of action anyway and seizing of minor bases), one month of execution and one month of reorganization and ship repairs before another major operation.

And PM invasion is "easy" compared to Noumea or Australia operations....

A Noumea operation schedule was a document about 10 pages long when I made it.... and the operation was never launched due to a CV battle that turned bad a month before.

As a newbie more than a year ago, I had also super TF sailing all across the map, surface TF doing bold night raids and so on. Once you have battled an experienced PBEM player, all of this is over.

As once said, war is 95% boredom and 5% death for the soldier. In UV it is rougfhly the same ratio between preparation and decivise battles.

....

As for training, you will have to wait for months before Allied LBA will be able to hit a ship in open sea, other than an occasionnal lucky hit.
There is three types of training in UV:

_ ground training: training orders with training level 0%. Pilots with exp under 60 may win exp and there will be no op losses (useful mainly for IJN players when they receive replacements with 20-30 exp...)

_ flying training: training orders with training level more than 0%. Here the pilots fly and may crash but will win exp more quickly. I do this when all pilots are above 50 exp and when the exp of the unit is under 60.

_ "operationnal" training: naval search and ASW patrols for bombers, CAP in rear area for fighters/fighters-bombers. Once the xp unit is 60 or more.

If you have the choise, engage you air units when exp is over 65 exp.

A good tip for Allied LBA at the start of the game. Keep them grounded or on naval search until your CV planes, subs or surface ships damaged some ships. Then your bombers will easily sink the damaged ships.

I love this game

[Damien Thorn]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
Current version (2.20) is far batter than the first and Matrix did a great job to improve the game, taking in account the players complains and questions here on this forum. Sadly, no new patch until WitP is in the sales box.

Unless that was a typo, I have good news for you. The current version is 2.30.

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

Unless that was a typo, I have good news for you. The current version is 2.30.

Yes, it was a typo. Too many time no new patch has been released. Was the 2.20 version the 'air battle = bloodbath' version or the one where 200 planes will fight and only one or two fall ?

[marky]

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

Having read through the forums here to try and improve my gaming experience it`s clear alot of you out there love this game. Unfortunately I seem unable to share this collective enthusiam-but not for lack of trying. To give you an example- I played as US, started training my pilots to increase experience before Jap attack. Keep close eye on morale, fatigue etc. Have search planes on patrol. Next thing I know Jap fleet appears out of nowhere of coast of Gil. Ok I think, all those bomber sqauds I transfered from Austrailia will be put to good use as will my carrier group sitting SE of Japs. Of course I cant choose targets so all my aircraft decide to attack the small group of transports and destroyes (4 ships in total) as opposed to large 10ships+ of main Jap fleet. I might have forgive the computer if it had have sunk one but out of 50 aircraft I get 2 measly hits!! For crying out loud they didn`t have any aircover. Sitting ducks to an air squadron. Ok maybe my Carrier force can do something. No, didn`t launch. So I make the mistake of changing fleet status to "react to enemy". Which it duly did by racing north- alot! Putting itself in range of nearly all Jap land based aircraft and within spitting distance of much stronger Jap force. My planes attack, get cut to shreds and score zero bomb strikes out of 12. Japs attack , skip by CAP and cripple my 2 carriers. Can you understand how I might feel a bit cheated? Not to mention the feeling that I got to make practically zero tactical input.
For me this game seems to miss the crucial ingedients for the carrier battles of the pacific (well apart from luck which was all one way!). I think the definitive war game that does this period of history justice should be real time. Timing was one of the biggest factors in determining victory- when to strike your enemy and when not to. I want to be able to play the cat & mouse game played by the navy commanders- using darkness and weather fronts to quickly close then steam out of range to avoid their counter attack. Catching the enemy off guard and bombing their carriers as there planes refuel/rearm on deck. I want to decide the flightpath of my bombers so as to disguise my fleets location. I want tactical reports from my XO telling me the enemy fleet has just been spotted heading SE at 30 knots, how will I react. Or maybe the main elevator has been damaged and we cant launch planes for 2 hours, a long time when the enemy carriers are in striking distance. I want to be able to have subs and seaplanes shadow enemy fleets to give runing commentry on their movements/actions. All these things and more would give battles a tense atmosphere and feeling of excitement.
I really be interested to hear what other gamers think of all this. I know this game has alot of fans and I`m not looking to upset them. Just expressing my disappointment that as a seasoned strategy gamesplayer , I couldn`t warm to this game.

i KNOW wat u mean wen u say ur disappointed [:'(]

ive played alot of games in my 10+ years of my gaming career, and right now i cant remember being this disappointed by a game, that i havent been able to play AT ALL

i havent even been able to play it for 1 second cuz the stupid thing wont work [8|]


o, btw, good rule for games with a computer?

the computer ALWAYS cheats [;)]

u can set ur watch to it and put money on the fact that a computer WILL cheat, GUARANTEED

[grraven2004]

o, btw, good rule for games with a computer?

the computer ALWAYS cheats

u can set ur watch to it and put money on the fact that a computer WILL cheat, GUARANTEED
_______________________________________________________________________________________

The computer usually cheats because the AI isn't smart enough to give the good players a real challenge if they were equal [:D]

[Damien Thorn]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

Unless that was a typo, I have good news for you. The current version is 2.30.

Yes, it was a typo. Too many time no new patch has been released. Was the 2.20 version the 'air battle = bloodbath' version or the one where 200 planes will fight and only one or two fall ?

2.20 was the air bloodbath version. Actually, I kind of liked that one. It was the only time I ever shot down more than 1 B-17 in a battle. [:(]

[scorryuk]

Thats OK, I cheat too by reloading saved game after what i see as amazing bad luck (i.e I lose 3 destroyers to mines in same Hex, same turn!!) Still my opinion of this game has went up alot since my first post and I`m going to stick at it. If you don`t like AI challenge u could try PBEM though from what I read of some the unconventinal tactics employed in the war reports section you might be tempted to overlook computers flaws!

[marky]

ORIGINAL: grraven2004

o, btw, good rule for games with a computer?

the computer ALWAYS cheats

u can set ur watch to it and put money on the fact that a computer WILL cheat, GUARANTEED
_______________________________________________________________________________________

The computer usually cheats because the AI isn't smart enough to give the good players a real challenge if they were equal [:D]

LOL [:'(]

they should change it to A.S. huh?

(Artificial.Stupidity)

[marky]

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

Thats OK, I cheat too by reloading saved game after what i see as amazing bad luck (i.e I lose 3 destroyers to mines in same Hex, same turn!!) Still my opinion of this game has went up alot since my first post and I`m going to stick at it. If you don`t like AI challenge u could try PBEM though from what I read of some the unconventinal tactics employed in the war reports section you might be tempted to overlook computers flaws!

lol


reloading after i bad turn?

i do, or DID that in alot of games, but then i stopped.

i found it was more challenging after i got my @$$ handed to me in battle [:'(]

and of course, the harder it is, the greater the glory [:D]

(and the greater the bragging rights [;)][:D][:D])

[scorryuk]

Yeah will reach that stage myself soon. Still learning from mistakes.

[Oznoyng]

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

Yeah will reach that stage myself soon. Still learning from mistakes.

Half the time, I am reloading because I am trying to figure out how to make the forces do what I want em to do.

React to Enemy for instance: I have a two carrier TF and up pops the Death Star. "Dude!", says I to the Admiral's ghost, "'React' in that case is to run like a screaming girl."

[2ndACR]

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

Yeah will reach that stage myself soon. Still learning from mistakes.

Half the time, I am reloading because I am trying to figure out how to make the forces do what I want em to do.

React to Enemy for instance: I have a two carrier TF and up pops the Death Star. "Dude!", says I to the Admiral's ghost, "'React' in that case is to run like a screaming girl."

ROFLMAO!!!

Unfortunatly you have super brave or stupid admirals in this game. I wish for a Run Away setting.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
Unfortunatly you have super brave or stupid admirals in this game. I wish for a Run Away setting.

Otherwise known as the "Brave Sir Robin" command. "React to enemy" orders for a CV TF mean "Sic 'em, boys!"

[siRkid]

The game is exciting but not in the same way as RTS. The excitement comes form pulling off a plan that takes 30+ turns to set up. The excitement comes from finally isolating the enemy’s base and putting its airfield out of action. How about getting that carrier with 90% float damage to PH before it sinks?

This game could never be played as a RTS. There is too much going on. I have to say that I think true war gamming has been ruined by the RTS craze. I’m not saying that RTSgames are bad, they are fun and exciting, but developers have almost quit making turn based games in favor of RTS.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Kid

The game is exciting but not in the same way as RTS.

How in the world did RTS get involved in this silly discussion? It's sure not what I was talking about.

[siRkid]

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

Having read through the forums here to try and improve my gaming experience it`s clear alot of you out there love this game. Unfortunately I seem unable to share this collective enthusiam-but not for lack of trying. To give you an example- I played as US, started training my pilots to increase experience before Jap attack. Keep close eye on morale, fatigue etc. Have search planes on patrol. Next thing I know Jap fleet appears out of nowhere of coast of Gil. Ok I think, all those bomber sqauds I transfered from Austrailia will be put to good use as will my carrier group sitting SE of Japs. Of course I cant choose targets so all my aircraft decide to attack the small group of transports and destroyes (4 ships in total) as opposed to large 10ships+ of main Jap fleet. I might have forgive the computer if it had have sunk one but out of 50 aircraft I get 2 measly hits!! For crying out loud they didn`t have any aircover. Sitting ducks to an air squadron. Ok maybe my Carrier force can do something. No, didn`t launch. So I make the mistake of changing fleet status to "react to enemy". Which it duly did by racing north- alot! Putting itself in range of nearly all Jap land based aircraft and within spitting distance of much stronger Jap force. My planes attack, get cut to shreds and score zero bomb strikes out of 12. Japs attack , skip by CAP and cripple my 2 carriers. Can you understand how I might feel a bit cheated? Not to mention the feeling that I got to make practically zero tactical input.
For me this game seems to miss the crucial ingedients for the carrier battles of the pacific (well apart from luck which was all one way!). I think the definitive war game that does this period of history justice should be real time. Timing was one of the biggest factors in determining victory- when to strike your enemy and when not to. I want to be able to play the cat & mouse game played by the navy commanders- using darkness and weather fronts to quickly close then steam out of range to avoid their counter attack. Catching the enemy off guard and bombing their carriers as there planes refuel/rearm on deck. I want to decide the flightpath of my bombers so as to disguise my fleets location. I want tactical reports from my XO telling me the enemy fleet has just been spotted heading SE at 30 knots, how will I react. Or maybe the main elevator has been damaged and we cant launch planes for 2 hours, a long time when the enemy carriers are in striking distance. I want to be able to have subs and seaplanes shadow enemy fleets to give runing commentry on their movements/actions. All these things and more would give battles a tense atmosphere and feeling of excitement.
I really be interested to hear what other gamers think of all this. I know this game has alot of fans and I`m not looking to upset them. Just expressing my disappointment that as a seasoned strategy gamesplayer , I couldn`t warm to this game.

It came from the original post.

[siRkid]

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

Appreciate all the replies! Definately a steep learning curve. Never thought about importance of commanders, thanks will have to look at this. As for lack of hits had definately trained squadron up. Will maybe persevere, but still feel the game is slightly flawed genius.... What do you think of my comments on a real time version of the game where timing is as important as the strategy?

And the follow up question.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Kid
And the follow up question.

Gotcha. I couldn't figure out if something I had said perpetrated the discussion. I have trouble enough keeping up with what I AM thinking without worrying what the out-of-control portion of my mind may be encouraging people to believe I'm NOT thinking...