Hearts of Iron 2 announced

[Salient]

First time post here in the GF.

HOI seems to bring emotions about, that seems certain [;)]

I bought HOI, played it and couldn't get into it like many others, still a lot of other people did and still enjoy the game. A lot of people worked on mods like CORE and STONY ROAD and tried to make the game better. Paradox also were committed to the game, making several patches. I know HOI wasn't finished or balanced when it came out but the truth is we don't know the real reason for that, some people blame Strategy First for rushing it. Be that as it may, most of us and even Paradox fanboys know by now that a 1.00 game by Paradox isn't finished yet. Some can see this as inexcusable, others live with it and rely on modders and Paradox to make it better. And uptill now Paradox has ALWAYS supported their games. I guess we tend to forget that 90% of the games out there our lucky if 1 or 2 patches are being released. Remeber EU2 is now version 1.08!

For HOI2 I think it's a good thing that it is being made, after all the market for Grand Strategy isn't like 3D Shooters now is it?
Of course I'm sceptical about it and will consider it tenfold before giving my hard earned cash to Paradox (after HOI I neither bought Victoria or Crusader Kings).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm glad that the Grand Strategy ganre is living up again with SC2, CWiF, WaW and now HOI2. At least now we have a choice, and I'm sure we partly have HOI to thank for this, love or hate it.

[Zakhal]

I thought HoI was complete crap, totally unfixable. Things like sending planes repeatetly on each turn to attack was just stupid and annoying. HoI 2 seems good because they actually fixed that.

Other than that the tech tree though interesting, sucked. Now hopefully they will line up the clumsy interface too and all is good. Ill be watching this with interest.

[Zakhal]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm glad that the Grand Strategy ganre is living up again with SC2, CWiF, WaW and now HOI2. At least now we have a choice, and I'm sure we partly have HOI to thank for this, love or hate it.

Youre so right about that. So much to look forward to. Though i would add WiTP right there too. WiTP definetly is a grand strategy, if in extra grand detail.

[dinsdale]

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

ORIGINAL: dinsdale
Aren't you doing the same as Les? You are making a judgment on the game before it's finished (or started?) So what makes your assumptions more or less valid than Les's?

Well, actually I have been working on HoI2 as a beta since early January.

Lol, but isn't the game scheduled for 2005?

It's still a little too early to declare the game as anything, in fact going on past games won't it be 6 months to a year after release that the game will be finished [8D]

Best of luck with the testing, but I'd imagine you're going to run into a lot of HOI backlash until this game proves itself.

[NefariousKoel]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

I thought HoI was complete crap, totally unfixable. Things like sending planes repeatetly on each turn to attack was just stupid and annoying. HoI 2 seems good because they actually fixed that.

Other than that the tech tree though interesting, sucked. Now hopefully they will line up the clumsy interface too and all is good. Ill be watching this with interest.

As for the aircraft... I thought that was rather ignorant myself, but isn't there's a checkbox that'll keep sending them back automatically I found out later. Not sure what it's called since I haven't tried HOI in a long while. I'm not even sure where the CD is.

Anyway, it's nice to hear that everything being released isn't another shooter or Age of Empires clone. As for HOI 2's quality, we'll just have to wait and see, but I wouldn't hold my breath knowing the track record with both the devs and the publisher. I certainly won't buy HOI2 if the first one isn't fixed by then though.

[Kung Karl]

Shame on you all!! You are all missing somthing.

HoI 1.00 was crap. Period.
HoI 1.06 is a good and very fun WW2 game. Not a super realistic one, but fun.

Now even if HoI 1.06 had been crap doesn't say that the sequel has to be. Sequels is supposed to improve upon games and you should not judge a game before it hit the stores!

Another point, Close combat 5 was a good game and it's inofficial sequel G.I Combat sucked! The first game in serie doesn't set the standard for the rest of the serie!!

HoI 2 could be crap, version 1.00 will probably be. HoI2 1.05 will probably shine because paradox games requiers a lot of patches to work. It is a shame and really bad marketing. One must remember though that Paradox is a small company that produces advanced games in REALTIME which is hard to do and they need to put out games to surviuve. It is the reality of capitalism.

[Frank W.]

[/quote]
As for the aircraft... I thought that was rather ignorant myself, but isn't there's a checkbox that'll keep sending them back automatically I found out later. Not sure what it's called since I haven't tried HOI in a long while. I'm not even sure where the CD
[/quote]

problem even this fuction has a 2 bugs:

1. your airplanes keep flying even if the enemy has left the prov or is completly annihalated
2. there is no day/night switch, so your A/C will also fly at night with bad combat malus. also the weather isn´t takne into regard, say in a snow storm,blizzard your planes will take greatr losses and don´t accomplish much.

this are only 2 exmaples of the bad micromanaging in the game

see i like details very much, but they need to be presented with better UI and less MM than HOI.

also the 1.06 introduced 2 new "bugs"

1. the logistics malus . the idea is good, but my germa troops in england are now tracing supply from luxemburg for example and get every battle around - 40% combat malus. so everyone would think the germans are clever eough to setup supply depots in england, and don´t transport the goods from the nearest OWNED province-

2. combat ships take to much damage from fighting convois. even if you count normal maintenance failures on the high seas, i don´t expect my battleships, cruisers to get up 30% strenght loss if fighting transports and waves. also it´s again MM hell as you alwasy must look after the ships and send them back to port for repair etc. then send them out again, and all that starts again.
perhaps they should have a build in automatic that send ships back to port given on a players preference ( say 20% damage or so)

i´m jelous to see how WITP handles these things

[ravinhood]

ORIGINAL: tiredoftryingnames

Let me get this straight. They released a bug ridden crappy game with all kinds of issues. They've patched and patched and patched yet the basic issues remain. So now they want me to believe they're going to release a bigger and better version for me to BUY to replace the crap I already own. I thought when you released something you fixed it, not fixed it under a different name and then charge for it. With their track record this one will be bug ridden and crappy and when all the neat stuff that doesn't work in that one gets fixed they'll release it as HOI 3. Check a local retail store near you for your chance to get ripped off three times by the same company.

You know I'm glad not all business works like this. Imagine buying a car that breaks down driving it off the lot. If Paradox ran the car lot they'd sell you a newer car that improves the one you just bought to get you home instead of fixing the one you just got.

LOL yep that's what they want you to believe, but, I already told them on their official forums I wouldn't be purchasing the 2nd version upon release retail. They fooled me once, it won't happen again. I'll wait and get this game also for $10 or less like HOI hit on ebay. Their ignorant fans can pay retail out the ying yang for all I care on their games anymore. Taking a year and a half to finally make a game playable (HOI) is rediculous.

And also, ask them how many copies of VICTORIA they sold, lol, the sales for Victoria were so bad Johan himself came onto the forums and said they would not be making anymore games like Victoria because it didn't sell. lol

When you sell crap games out of the box and it takes a year and a half or 1.07 patches to finally have a working game, word gets around, so why pay retail when you can get it for $10 or less when it finally works like it should have out of the box?

EUII and HOI aren't so bad of games now, it's the time it took to make them into games I would play, so after HOI being my first retail purchase and then seeing how long it took to fix it, I saved loads of money on EUII, $7.49 in the bargain bin at Software Etc. lol

[von Murrin]

Yup, you're right, ravin. All us folk who be playin' Paradox games are ignorant.[8|]

I like Paradox games. I like Battlefront games, games published by Matrix, etc. One thing you won't see me do is mouth off about the supposed ignorance of people who play, and like, games I don't care for.

You don't like Paradox? Fine, no need to insult those of us who do.

[EricGuitarJames]

As a game I quite enjoyed HoI (I think I'm patched to 1.05 but it's been a while since I played it now). I liked the micro-management of the economy, research, unit creation etc. but the combat 'sucked' and the strategy was a bit wonky. If you're after grand-strategy sim of WW2 (which is what the likes of Les seem to be after[;)]) then HoI misses the target. I won't be rushing out to get HoI2 though, I'll wait until I've read reviews, played demos, checked forums etc. to see whether it significantly improves on HoI in the 'realism' area.