Flanker Mod 6.22.41

[Kevin E. Duguay]

GO Baby GO!!!!![;)][:)][:D][:)]

[JagdFlanker]

wow, you seem to know your aircraft!! as far as manouver ratings go most of it involved guessing and doing a lot of reading on the net and finding comments that said one aircraft was as or slightly more manouverable than another, etc. other than that i had to 'trust' that the original stats were more or less correct. what i wanted to do was find a boardgame or a turned based air combat game which would have some solid stats i could base all the aircraft around, but i couldn't find any, particulary for the eastern front. what i will do in the near future is take your aircraft comments as a basis and do some additional research to recalculate the stats to something more 'solid'. thanks for the info - it really helps!!

as for the comments i can answer:

extra new aircraft - i want to avoid adding new aircraft to keep things as simplified as possible. i will look at your suggestions to see if those aircraft are a vast improvement over the previous models, but i tried to use the average best stats for all the most produced model(s) for each individual aircraft as the basis for the stats i used. so my Fw 190A is actually likely based somewhat around the A8 already, but off hand i'd have to re-check what i did. In a previous post 6 months ago in another mod thread i had comments of the like that the Ju-188 is not a good enough upgrade to the Ju-88 to make it worth including, and upon further review i agreed. i will re-evaluate when i redo the aircraft stats again - my research for the aircraft side of things is actually not as thorough as the tanks side and i will be rechecking my own work in the future to ensure everything looks right. when i get obssesed with something i go waaaay 'too far' with it!

Hs 129 -> Fw 190f - the Hs 129 was only fully produced for the 1 year or so and the Fw 190f starts production about a year later so it just so happened to work perfectly in regards to production times. besides, there's also the Ju-87g in production which is at least as good!

Me 262 - yes, it's cannon rating includes rockets (1/2 point each). i decided that since it comes so late in the game and would only likely be going after bombers anyways, so it should keep it's high cannon. anyone ever play a '41 campaign to mid '44? that would be pretty fun, as it almost doesn't seem possible!! in the future i do have to change all the other scenarios if i want ANY chance of this mod becoming 'official', though...

Pz IIIj/60 and the IIIm - i know they both have the same gun, but i took the stats from combat mission:barbarossa to berlin and they also account for crazy stuff like better ammo, etc. but in the end the decision for game's sakes is that it should be worth your while to build all the Pz III's so i think the IIIm deserves to have slightly better stats than it's predicessor to make it a worthwhile upgrade. i will look into it later, though, to make sure.

JgPz IV/70 & Panther - good eye!! actually the Panther is supposed to be 1 def point more (with slope it has 125mm or armour, rounded up), but i had to round it down in this one case to give it less power than the Tiger. i also had to give the Tiger a +1 def to give it more power than the Panther and have a reason to make the Tiger more expensive. it is supposed to be the 'heavy' tank, after all!

[Josans]

Really you are doing an excellent work[&o]

Congrats[8D]

[JagdFlanker]

thanks josan!! hopefully i'll have the pleasure of getting my ass kicked by you in the near future!!

i forgot to note i noticed my first dbase mistake - the StuG IIIb currently upgrades to the Nashorn so i'll have that fixed saturday. geez, thought i caught all the typo errors...

[Josans]

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

thanks josan!! hopefully i'll have the pleasure of getting my ass kicked by you in the near future!!

i forgot to note i noticed my first dbase mistake - the StuG IIIb currently upgrades to the Nashorn so i'll have that fixed saturday. geez, thought i caught all the typo errors...

A challenge?[;)] Sounds good...

[JagdFlanker]

i sent you a pvt msg!

[Josans]

ORIGINAL: Flanker Leader

i sent you a pvt msg!

Oops![&:] Im ready if you are.[:@][:)]

[Denniss]

If it's too much work and testing then why not replace the ME109K with the improved Me109G6 and 25 or 25 maneuver and cannon 9?
The Me109K comes too late to be effective and then there's the Fw190D to play with

If there's no free plane slot why not remove the MC-200 and give Mixed Fighters a +1 ?

I like to use Me110G/Me410 as bomber killer so I prefer to have at least one tank-destroyer without upgrade path .
AFAIK Ju87 to Fw190F is/was somewhat hardcoded but the Hs129 was free of this ...

Just another question : Should the Ju87B range a little greater ?
The Ju87 "Tankbuster" was based on the Ju87D so range should not be so short but must be shorter then the D-model

Shouldn't all planes have at least a load of 1 to represent attacks with MG-fire ?

Ju188 : More load + more range + more/better defensive weapons + better armor/durability .
Should be a good upgrade path for Ju88 production .
-> Prsonally I like to streamline production thus building only one or two different bomber types and not 4 or 5 - the same with fighters (mostly Fw190 with some 109)

[JagdFlanker]

mr denniss, i tried to send ya an email but the address is no longer valid. give me a ring:

bcgnkirov!yahoo.ca (replace ! with you know what)

[Denniss]

Hmmm - Mail should be OK but your mail may be caught by SPAM-filter ....
Changed to my other mail adress now .

Is there anything special you need/want from me ?

[Denniss]

What's new in 0.12 ?

Only the StuG upgrade line fixed or something else found ?

What about the Bucharest Mixed-Fighter factory not changeable to other planes but one of the italian factories ?
-> maybe something hardcoded to special factory slots

Is it possible to rename the Bf109/110 to Me-109/110 ?
-> That's the name they are known with but it may not be historically correct

[JagdFlanker]

yes, mostly the StuG thing, and i think i took some population out of siberia and put it in moscow (total 100), just so russia has extra incentive to defend moscow. however once it falls it's 'original population' is 50 so they lose about 2/3 of it. i'm still experimenting with that, a little...

i sent ya an email as i would love to have you do a rework of the aircraft stats since you seem to know much more than i do on the subject! up to you, if you have the time! you can email me at bcgnkirov!yahoo.ca if you are interested.

um, i'm not sure what you mean about the special factory planes question, but yes, they are hardcoded so that we cannot change whatever is in them. too bad - i'd like to turn that on for ALL the factories for a varient!!

[Denniss]

The MC-202 factory is accessible and changeable but the Mixed fighters in Romania is locked .
AFAIK this locking applies only to italian factories or factories producing italian equipment - change a factory to M13/40 and it will become locked .
Looks like the MC-202 is at an exe-unlocked equipment slot and Mixed Fighters is at a locked slot .

I'm experimenting a little with added ME-109G6 as well as FW-190A8 and Ju-188 and some small aircraft stats changes - I'll mail you my changes .

BTW : Murmansk should not have so many population - looks like half of england is coming to fight for Russia
P.S. : Is it possible to prevent the 1943 PzBn to JPzBn conversion in PzDivs without using special tools just from the data file ?

[JagdFlanker]

ok, i changed the positions of some of the italian aircraft, so i guess that explains why they are now upgradeable. guess i have to put them back!!

the extra population is considered to be from siberia, as the slot is called lend/lease-siberia.

changing the ai unit upgrading is not possible - it is hard coded.

unfortunately i have noticed in a game i just started that there are a lot of 'unfortunate' auto upgrades, particularly in russian aircraft, which change the type of aircraft the wing can handle - for example the Il-4 bombers are replaced with SB-2's, and you can't change the wing back to Il-4's manually anymore. i think i know how to fix it, but will take some work!

i spent 4 hours today on the KV/JS tank ikons - they look a lot better (the turrets are now lower). i'l put it on the next version (0.13)

[Denniss]

The Urals has all population/factories inside that's not on map (Urals/east of Urals including Sibiria) so no adding to Murmansk needed .

[Denniss]

Rename all Bf-109/110 to Me-109/110

Rename ME-109G Me-109G2
Change Me-109G2 to 24-5-2-12-27
-> 1x20mm + 2x7.92mm
-> Delay arrival to 9/1942
-> much better engine than 109F (+300PS)

Add Me-109G6 arriving 6/1943
-> 25-9-2-12-28
-> 1x30mm + 2x13mm

Rename Me-109K to Me-109K4
Change Me-109K to 29-9-2-10-29
-> Superior to all allied/german fighters except Me-262
-> 1x30mm + 2x13mm

Increase ME-110 cannon to 10 - 2x20mm + 4x7.92mm
Me-110G series used drop tanks so range should be a little less than Me-410 range - 22

Me-410 should be available 9/1943

Add Fw-190A8 arriving ~10/1943
-> 25-16-4-13-32
-> improved engine and other things so +1 maneuver
-> 4x20mm/2x13mm instead of 4x20mm+2x7.92mm

Rename Fw-190D to Fw-190D9

Ju-87D/G should have the same durability as it's basically the same plane so both 31 to represent added armor against ground fire
Ju-87B bombload was 500Kg or 700Kg - it seems they used 1x500 + 4x50kg bombs
Ju-87D bombload was up to 1.8tons so bombload sould be 2.5x the load of the B-version
-> Hint : Do217 with 4t bombload - He-111: 2-2.5t - Ju88: 2.5-3t - Do17Z: 1t - He-177 : ~7t

Ju87B is short legged but no so short - a little more than ME-109E range so 12
Ju-87G should have nearly the same range as the Ju-87D (same plane) - 20 should be OK (reduction due to the big guns)

Reduce Fw-190 cost to 4
Increase 109G2 and later to 4
increase Me-110 cost to 4

Hs-129 should have 2x20mm + 2x7.9mm + 1x30mm giving at least 13 cannon + payload of at least 250KG for bombs
Or the real tank-buster with 3.7cm + 2x20mm + 2x13mm giving 18 cannon rating points but this plane is available late 1942
-> Maybe one Hs-129 of the first type arriving earlier (end 1941/beginning 1942) with cost of 6 and the real tank buster late 1942 with cost of 5 (to stop players buiding too much of these early TD)

Rename He-111 to He-111H

German level bomber durability as well as bomb load rating should be : Do17Z -> He111H -> Ju88 -> Do217 -> He-177
Do217 should get 44 + Ju88 40 + He111H 36 + Do17Z 32 durability


Increase MC-202 maneuver to 22 - same engine as ME-109F and a good airframe
Mc.202/205 Durability should be the same as Me-109G2

Icrease MC.205 cannon rating to 10
-> 2x20mm + 2x12.7mm
increase maneuver to 25 - was more or less on par with G6
decrease range to 13
-> same engine as 109G6 and more or less the same amount of fuel

Increase P47(C) to 23 maneuver and P47D to 24 - somehow comparable to Fw-190/Fw-190A8

P38 should get 22 maneuver - better than P39/P40/Hurricane and a really fast plane

P51 should not be equal to Fw-190D - reduce maneuver to 27
increase durability to 32 - 28 is too low

Reduce Spit maneuver to 26 + Fw-190D to 28 + Me262 to 30 + Yak3 to 26 + Yak9U to 27
Increase LaGG3 maneuver to 18 - not as bad ad it looks like
MiG1 should get one point to 17
Mig3 sould get one point to 19
Yak1 + 1 for 20
Yak3 -1 to 26
Mixed Fighters +1 to 17

My feeling says I15/16 are a little overrated - good maneuver but slooooow

Maybe :
Reduce Mixed Fighters cost to 4 and let it upgrade to Me-109G2
-> to represent IAR(and other) aircraft factories were forced to build Me-109G instead of old planes
Or let it upgrade to MC.205 without cost change

Edit : more changes
I still have to play with level/dive bomber payload and level bomber ranges

[Brutus]

VERY good suggestions! I back them all [&o]

If there is still an empty aircraft slot available after the modifications, I would love to see a very cheap (2 or 3) He-162 with high mvr and low cannon rating, becoming buildable in early 45. Not very useful in normal games, I know, but a cool gimmick.



Don't know if it's possible but maybe there is a way to increase the cannon rating of all german fighters in march/april 45 to represent the very powerful new R4M-rockets. They could have changed the air war and the allied bomber losses much more then some (few) faster fighters or increased cannon equipment.

[Denniss]

R4M are included in Me-262 cannon ratings - AFAIK a lot of/most R4M have been fired by Me-262 cause this plane was fast enough to come to a special range to the bombers to fire them and to go away without much risk of getting shot at .

A He-162 would not be of great use - maneuver would be lower than Fw-190D and range around 10 - low cannon rating and low durability makes it worthless .
It wasn't a good plane and highly risky for the pilot

[Denniss]

It looks like plane slots 17/18/20/21/62/63 are hard-locked to italian plane types (invading Italy = Armored Car production).
-> Change a factory to ME-410(#62)and you'll not be able to change again
The selectable MC.202 uses slot 19 and is available for changing .

-> I checked this with 1943/1944 campaign and italian planes used these slots

BTW :The MC-202 should be upgraded a little - maneuver one point better than Me-109F or at least equal (same engine/better airframe) - durability should be as high as MC-205 - basically the same airframe just with a diferent engine
-> Mc.202/205 Durability should be the same as Me-109G2
-> Mc.205 maneuver should be the same as Me-109G6 - a really good plane but just not enough in numbers

[JagdFlanker]

wow-eee! mabe i'll just wait for your final list...

in the meantime hows aboot telling us where you manged to procure all this fancy knowledge? pretty impressive!!