They are bashing Gary Grigsby!

[.50Kerry]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

ORIGINAL: Spooky

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

Paradox should seek another publisher. Strategy first is well known for horrendous relieses.

Paradox just dumped Strategy First for the "Crusader Kings" release in North America so I presume their relationship is over [:)]

Why blame the publisher for shoddy development? They have nothing to do with the code.

Not true....

the Publishers exert pressure on regional release dates.

StratFirst pushed Vicky out of the gate before it was ready(and the engine as I said has limits IMHO) and then gave it NO hooplah....

a better publisher/dev relationship will HELP the coding by having less pressure exerted.

[PlacidDragon]

Dont know if they are bashing him (they as in plural). One of the people said to boycott Grisby (he couldnt even spell the name right, the poor guy, hehe), but i havent seen a single bad comment after that. Grigsby probably has a *lot* of fans in the range of gamers that are over 20 years old (that have seen his many excellent games throughout the years)

[PlacidDragon]

And i just saw that you were the "AMEN brother" (at least its the same name, so i imagine its you) lol, good one that [:D]

[elmo3]

Added my 2 cents at Paradox. [;)]

[Didz]

ORIGINAL: dinsdale

Both games look like Risk++ though I would wager HOI will be a deeper game with more gameplay options and WaW will probably be more stable and a more accurate WW2 game.

ORIGINAL: Didz
Personally, I hated EU. Its another game gathering dust on the reject shelf.
Nice, idea ruined by unecessary use of real time programming and 3D animation that got in the way of gameplay.

How did the limited icon animation "get in the way" of gameplay? Do you think they could have squeezed out a new generation AI in the afternoon it took to animate the icons?

The game lasts 400 years and thankfully the continuous time design prevents pressing the next-turn button every week, this is one game the truly benefits from being RTS.

I'm afraid it just irritated the hell out of me watching those lame little figures trudging over the landscape for ages when all I needed to do was pick tyhem up and move them to the next province and the stupid animate comabt sequences acheived nothing but delay the point when the programme told me who had won the battle.

I'm afraid I have no time for such teenage gimmicks, escpecially when the net result of all that 3D rubbish is that I can't play the game as a PBEM with my friends.

[ravinhood]

Heh, they dumped Strategy First and picked up with ATARI, lol ATARI, oh boy, let me go find my JOYSTICKS from my ATARI days! lol

But, about Paradox and their "buy it now, we'll fix it later" policy, I certainly agree with waiting to buy any of their games now. I can understand "1" or maybe "2" patches, but, "7" or "8" a year and a half from the release date??? no way man (I'm nobodies beta tester when I have to pay for it). It took them a year and a half to make HOI 1 playable to me in a realistic sense. Allied invasions, in fact any AI's amphibious invasions and naval combat was to laugh at. And I don't buy these games for their "multiplayer" features, so the gameplay and the AI had better be pretty up to snuff if any of them want my $$. HOI 1 was the first and last Paradox game I will ever buy retail. I got EU II for $7.95 after patch 1.07 came out. If that's how they intend to do business, then that's how I intend to buy their products, when they are actually finished and not some "beta" program out of the box.

[Mr.Frag]

I got EU II for $7.95 after patch 1.07 came out.

Bet you still feel gouged on the price. [:D]

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Heh, they dumped Strategy First and picked up with ATARI, lol ATARI, oh boy, let me go find my JOYSTICKS from my ATARI days! lol

Its not atari really but interplay which bought the atari logo after their own trademark (interplay) was tarnished by multiple bad releases. Not that it helped much in their case. The bad releases still continue. (temple of elemental evil etc)

[Phillip V]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Heh, they dumped Strategy First and picked up with ATARI, lol ATARI, oh boy, let me go find my JOYSTICKS from my ATARI days! lol

But, about Paradox and their "buy it now, we'll fix it later" policy, I certainly agree with waiting to buy any of their games now. I can understand "1" or maybe "2" patches, but, "7" or "8" a year and a half from the release date??? no way man (I'm nobodies beta tester when I have to pay for it). It took them a year and a half to make HOI 1 playable to me in a realistic sense. Allied invasions, in fact any AI's amphibious invasions and naval combat was to laugh at. And I don't buy these games for their "multiplayer" features, so the gameplay and the AI had better be pretty up to snuff if any of them want my $$. HOI 1 was the first and last Paradox game I will ever buy retail. I got EU II for $7.95 after patch 1.07 came out. If that's how they intend to do business, then that's how I intend to buy their products, when they are actually finished and not some "beta" program out of the box.

As you just mentioned, Paradox has dropped Strategy First - the reason that they had to release games that were not ready. Now, they are their OWN publisher. Atari is helping with distribution.

[Mr.Frag]

Now, they are their OWN publisher. Atari is helping with distribution.

So the next time we have this discussion, there will be no more excuses as to the state of the game. Good. Tired of excuses.

[Juba]

ORIGINAL: Didz

I'm afraid it just irritated the hell out of me watching those lame little figures trudging over the landscape for ages when all I needed to do was pick tyhem up and move them to the next province and the stupid animate comabt sequences acheived nothing but delay the point when the programme told me who had won the battle.

I'm afraid I have no time for such teenage gimmicks, escpecially when the net result of all that 3D rubbish is that I can't play the game as a PBEM with my friends.

I guess you forgot that you can speed up the game [:o]

How would it have been done better to simulate the troops marching to the province? Or would you like the unit to stay motionless and then all of a sudden zoom over to the other province?

The same thing with the battles. Should the battle be decided the second the two armies meet or should the player be given time to retreat when he sees that the battle isn't going his way?

Teenage gimmicks [:D] IMHO the game is much better in real-time than in turn-based. You don't think so and it's your loss you're missing out on one of the greatest games I've ever played (EU2 that is not EU, eventhough they may seem similiar there is a quite a bit of difference between the two and EU2 is MUCH better than EU).

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Heh, they dumped Strategy First and picked up with ATARI, lol ATARI, oh boy, let me go find my JOYSTICKS from my ATARI days! lol

Its not atari really but interplay which bought the atari logo after their own trademark (interplay) was tarnished by multiple bad releases. Not that it helped much in their case. The bad releases still continue. (temple of elemental evil etc)

That's not accurate, although I'm sorry that's the case since it was the loss of rights to Atari that helped kill Jefferson (Baldur's Gate 3). Poor old Interplay is dead. They put out some great games. May they rest in peace.

The Atari logo is being used as a beard but it's by Infogrames.

http://www.atari.com/

[elmo3]

And after the way Atari/Infogrames/Quicksilver butchered MOO3, then cut their losses and ran, they'll never see another penny from me.

[Zakhal]

ORIGINAL: mjk428

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Heh, they dumped Strategy First and picked up with ATARI, lol ATARI, oh boy, let me go find my JOYSTICKS from my ATARI days! lol

Its not atari really but interplay which bought the atari logo after their own trademark (interplay) was tarnished by multiple bad releases. Not that it helped much in their case. The bad releases still continue. (temple of elemental evil etc)

That's not accurate, although I'm sorry that's the case since it was the loss of rights to Atari that helped kill Jefferson (Baldur's Gate 3). Poor old Interplay is dead. They put out some great games. May they rest in peace.

The Atari logo is being used as a beard but it's by Infogrames.

http://www.atari.com/

Correct. Inforgames not interplay. Cant remember all the names.[:'(]

[ravinhood]

OMG it's Infogrames? I swore I would NEVER EVER buy another game with their name on it. Glad you told me, I might have bought the Atari title.

[ravinhood]

Bet you still feel gouged on the price.

Yeah I sorta do, when I went back to the store a month later the last few copies were down to $4.99. lol

quote:

Now, they are their OWN publisher. Atari is helping with distribution.

So the next time we have this discussion, there will be no more excuses as to the state of the game. Good. Tired of excuses.

Yeah, we'll see, can't wait to see what Johan's excuse will be this time around since they are their OWN publishers now, there will be no excuse for a beta program out of the box. To me though there never really was, I don't buy this publishers push causes bad games, I say the developers were lazy and didn't program fast enough, probably spent too much time drinking coffee and wagging with the secretaries, then when release time came, it was like "oh but we aren't finished yet, we need more funds and more time", "ok well don't blame us then if the game gets bad reviews, we worked on it hard and heavy" lol yeah right.

[mjk428]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal

Correct. Inforgames not interplay. Cant remember all the names.[:'(]

Easy to get confused. I just didn't want Interplay to get the "credit" that Infogrames deserves. [:)]

[EricGuitarJames]

I have to say I find Grigsby's games a bit uninvolving. I can't really put my finger on why and since a lot of wargamers rate his games highly I guess it's just a personal thing. Regarding HoI (and the upcoming HoI2), despite my general preference for 'real-time' (or 'continuous-pausable') I'd agree with Wodin that it probably would have been better turn-based.

[Juba]

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Yeah, we'll see, can't wait to see what Johan's excuse will be this time around since they are their OWN publishers now, there will be no excuse for a beta program out of the box. To me though there never really was, I don't buy this publishers push causes bad games, I say the developers were lazy and didn't program fast enough, probably spent too much time drinking coffee and wagging with the secretaries, then when release time came, it was like "oh but we aren't finished yet, we need more funds and more time", "ok well don't blame us then if the game gets bad reviews, we worked on it hard and heavy" lol yeah right.

They still have their European publishers (there are many, like 5 for each game) to blame [:D]

[8|] PE & Johan are NOT lazy. How many developers/lead programmers would decide to cancel their weekends plans to fix a serious problem introduced by a patch/update released on friday and have had the new patch out by saturday? How many programmers update their games in their free-time like Johan does with EU2?

[Didz]

ORIGINAL: Juba
How would it have been done better to simulate the troops marching to the province? Or would you like the unit to stay motionless and then all of a sudden zoom over to the other province?

The same thing with the battles. Should the battle be decided the second the two armies meet or should the player be given time to retreat when he sees that the battle isn't going his way?

Teenage gimmicks [:D] IMHO the game is much better in real-time than in turn-based. You don't think so and it's your loss you're missing out on one of the greatest games I've ever played (EU2 that is not EU, eventhough they may seem similiar there is a quite a bit of difference between the two and EU2 is MUCH better than EU).

Its essentially a boardgame and in my opinion should have been designed as a board game. There was no need to use real time at all. The counters could have been picked up and dropped where ever you wanted them to go and battles could have been decided when two counters ended up in the same area.

At least them it could have been played as a multi-player PBEM.