Scenario Design 101 - Art of War #2 Map Making Part One

[Flashfyre]

A few tips I've discovered thru practice:
1. Build your map like you would build a house-foundation first. Decide on the general "lay of the land" and build it. Lay out the hills, rivers/streams, and beaches. Then add some terrain (rough, high grass, sand dunes, snowbanks, etc.). Finally, throw the trees, roads, trails, and buildings in.

2. Remember which types of terrain are "overlays" and which are "underlays". Hills, clear, stream/gullies, and others are "underlays"---that is, they become the basis for the hex and supersede what is already there. Overlays like trees, grass, roads, and buildings go on top of the underlayment. Knowing this can keep you from accidently erasing a stream hex with a hill, or having a building sit inside a gully.

3. Always check the terrain box after you place things....it will indicate if the height is wrong, or the combination doesn't make sense. For example, seeing the following "Hex 0,0, Primary road, Secondary road, Gully, Level 15, Slope, Wooden Building" may be OK as far as the mapmaker program is concerned, but is it really what you wanted for that hex?

4. Too many terrain features in a hex can confuse the AI, not to mention the player. Also, a conservative hand with the "paintbrush" is better than a liberal one. What you strive for is a realistic impression of the land, not an actual "every bush and stone" representation.

Well, back to my mapmaking......Attu Island is slowly taking shape.

[RUsco]

I find it easier to work from the center out.

The majority of the battle will most likely be centered in the center of the map. So I place the most important items there.

If the battle is a city fight, place the city in the center.

If a stream or river is in the city, I place that first and place the city around it.

Then the hills.

Finally I divide the map into smaller sections and work each section until that section is completed to my satisfaction.

[Wild Bill]

These are all great insights fellas into how it is done, or at least your way of doing it.

What catches my eye is that none of you so far follow exactly the same procedure, but I know from what I have seen you do good maps.

We can all (including me) learn a lot just from reading these posts, my aspiring colleagues.

Wild Bill

[Banjo]

Since I do not have a specific scenario in mind for this class only a general idea for a non historical small scenario, I fired up the map editor like Bill said to play with it for a while. After playing with the buttons for a while, the screen looked like someone threw a box of mixed terrain on the floor and there it lay. Then I decided to get a bit more serious.

As kids as I'm sure everyone in this class did, we had an imaginary battlefield where we fought the enemy with our toy guns and imaginations. We had a HUGE piece of woods behind our house with a few hills a field and trails. In actuality it was only no more than about 300 or 400 sq. yards, but when your only 6 or seven it was huge. My parents still live there, and the woods are gone, but the layout is forever etched in my mind. So it's there I decided to try and make my first map.

Since each hex in the game is 50 meters, it is about the size of my parents property. The side of the steet that they live on has six houses, so That gave me six houses in six hexes in a row. Now after looking at my map, I know that I could drive at least 2 tanks beteween the house next door and my parents house, so why will the tank imobilize? After thinking about it, there are a few trees, a shed, and odd bits of shrubbery in the yard. Not the easiest terrain to manuever while trying not to get killed. So even if you could drive a vehicle in between a house in each hex, there are obsticles which don't show up on the map that could be there.

Now I want to go get a city map that has a distance scale on it, and see how close I can make the map from my memory to that. The odometer in my truck can help also. I think an important thing to remember is that, 50 meters is a lot of space. By starting out with only a platoon or so In my first scenario, it will help keep things in perportion. I have found that it's easy to spread forces out on the board farther than they should because the icons appear so large. Maybe I should use the icon reduction when I play. I hope you all get the drift.

These are just a few of my working ideas at the moment. Will sign off now since it's late, and I have a tendancy to ramble on and on even when I'm not tired.

[Don]

1. Build your map like you would build a house-foundation first. Decide on the general "lay of the land" and build it. Lay out the hills, rivers/streams, and beaches. Then add some terrain (rough, high grass, sand dunes, snowbanks, etc.). Finally, throw the trees, roads, trails, and buildings in.

Flashfyre is right, and one of THE most important things is to lay your elevations before you make your roads. Probably the best way to see why is to take a small blank map, lay a north-south road, and then make a hill over part of the road. Now you just made that part of the road "disappear" - even though you can still see it, it has disappeared on the small screen and you have to re-lay it. Now try to fix that N-S road, and you'll see it's not easy. When you add road juctions into the mix it gets even harder, and sometimes results in a portion of map being completely redone.

By practicing you'll find out these things and soon learn the right order to put them on the map.

[ectizen]

I've been playing with the map editor, trying out various options, getting a feel for how those various options will influence my first scenario opus. I seem to face many challenges.

I'm aiming to produce a jungle map, with lots of non-flat terrain - actually on the side of a mountain. With that in mind, here's my list of questions for the more advanced scenariosmiths:

1. Is there an easier way than "8000 Clicks Of Death" to set the height of the original, blank map to something greater than 0? I know Fred's WAWMap can do this with elevation bitmaps, but that only works with summer terrain - I need jungle.
2. I'd like to have hills higher than 30. I've read elsewhere in the forum that Fred's WAWMapEd can do this (up to 50), although his web host seems to be 404ing him at the moment so I can't check this. Does anyone have a link to this hosted somewhere else?
3. What is the highest terrain the game engine can handle? The highest I've heard of is something like 75 or 80 (a tall building, on a 50 hill). Can it handle higher? Note that I'm not asking about map editors, but the game itself.
   [/list=a]
   
   I'll leave the questions about using OOB editors to add mountain goat units for a later lesson.
   
   Thanks!

[panda124c]

Ok now for some hard questions.

What is the effect on movement of each type of terrain?

Water- Coral reef, shallow water, water, deep water, which one's can be crossed by vehicals or infantry on foot?

When you convert a stream to a river what depth water is used.

The rules say that trenches can not be crossed by vehicals but by adding 'Dragon Teeth' it turns into an anti-tank ditch, what's the difference?? Can engineers or dozers fill in trenches/anti-tank ditches?

Is there any way to change the orintation of the start lines form 'top to bottom' to 'left to right'. I'd like to have an entry point and setup on the top and bottom of the map?

What is the size of the small, meduim, and large maps?

[TheZel66]

Is there any way to change the orintation of the start lines form 'top to bottom' to 'left to right'. I'd like to have an entry point and setup on the top and bottom of the map?

Yes, move both start lines on the top half of the map to right edge, and the bottom half the left edge.

[RockinHarry]

Hello WB, hello all

I think this is the best place so far, for me to step in.

Question first: Is Map making to be covered in SPWAW only, or may I give some examples/hints for Freds MapEdit, too?

____________
RockinHarry

[RolandRahn_MatrixForum]

Originally posted by ectizen:

[*]Is there an easier way than "8000 Clicks Of Death" to set the height of the original, blank map to something greater than 0? I know Fred's WAWMap can do this with elevation bitmaps, but that only works with summer terrain - I need jungle.
[/b]

Hello ectizen,

I don't know how this works with Fred Chandla's editor, but with the spwaw editor there is a way:

Just click on "Fill range". Put in a very big number (500). Then choose the terrain item you want - for example, a 30 feet elevation. Put the terrain item on the map (the item appears on a single hex), than click "Fill". Now you should have a map filled with the choosen terrain item.

Hope this helps,
Roland

[ectizen]

Excellent! That worked great, Roland. My left mouse button thanks you!

[panda124c]

Originally posted by TheZel:
Is there any way to change the orintation of the start lines form 'top to bottom' to 'left to right'. I'd like to have an entry point and setup on the top and bottom of the map?

Yes, move both start lines on the top half of the map to right edge, and the bottom half the left edge.

Sorry this is like telling me the way to learn to drive is to get in the car and drive. How do you move the start lines???? I've tried clicking and dragging, I tried setting the entry points to the top and bottom they get saved on the left and right. I can't find a button that effects the start lines in any way.

[Don]

pbear,

In deploy, click on the bottom button on the left with the two little green flags. This takes you to where you can change the start lines. Choose which one to alter, and start clicking!

[Wild Bill]

My, oh my. What questions. Good ones, all.

Let's see if I can help.

Left clicking fills one hex

Right clicking fills one hex and all adjacent hexes.

Using the fill feature (explained well by Roland - I usually set it for 15 or 20) will cover a lot of ground quick.

Example, if I want the entire map at level 10 (10 meters) I might set it to 50 and then with a couple of clicks it is done.

Next....

Harry, this is a forum. Feel free to chip in with ideas from Fred's fine program!

Then...
Okay Zel, you've heard about the start lines. Let me in on this, though. The game by default is set to play right to left or left to write.

With the start lines you can overcome this to a point.

Oh, you can also trade sides by going to the map editor and clicking on the bottom left hand button. But then if you have been doing your homework, you already know this .

If you do set up a top to bottom, bottom to top battle, be sure and put exit flags where they should be.

Which brings up another matter. Exit flags and reinforcement flags are set in the map editor. The reinforcement hexes are assigned in the deploy screen. Keep that one in mind.
We'll talk more about it later.

Let's see...

Higher terrain can be done, but not within the game. It is tricky and done with Chlanda's map editor. I don't know how to do it. Redleg and others are better at that than I.

And...

Banjo is definitely on the right track, modeling maps after real terrain. Good idea, my friend. That is how you learn to give it that "natural" look!

Plus...


For PBear, I think there is a terrain effects list in the manual. I'll look. I have one somewhere.

The one I have is an Excel spreadsheet so I can't post it here.

Water, leg units can move on coral and shallow water. They will drown in anything deeper. Vehicles can transit shallow water hexes (with breakdown roll), water (+2) and deep water(+3) are only transited by amphibious vehicles and naval craft....and amphibious tanks, I believe.

I've seen tracked vehicles cross gullies, not wheeled vehicles, but at a large cost and with possible breakdown.

They all avoid a ditch or gully if possible.

Stream to water is just that, +2 water, cannot be crossed by vehicles or leg units.

Did I get it all? I hope so. If I missed yours, remind me.

And thanks to the others who have done map design and have offered suggestions. Good deal!

Soon as I can figure out how to post a few simple graphics (you know, "a picture..."), maybe I'll got into even more detail.

Remember, get familiar with the map editor this week. That is your assignment. Read what is in the manual and make some maps. You'll learn by doing.

That is all...for now

Wild Bill

[panda124c]

Originally posted by Don:
pbear,

In deploy, click on the bottom button on the left with the two little green flags. This takes you to where you can change the start lines. Choose which one to alter, and start clicking!

I found it, my assumption was that the start lines were a function of map making since the exit and renforcement flags are placed in the map making process. Now when I pick the start line flags and place them left to right on the map every time the flag is in the same row as another flag the first one dissapears. So if I put one flag on the left edge and another on the right edge is the start line between these two flags?

Thanks everyone

[Wild Bill]

Just draw an imaginary line from one flag to another and that is your start line, anything behind that imaginary line. That is the easiest way to describe it, PBear.

Wild Bill

[ectizen]

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
My, oh my. What questions.

My, oh my. What answers! Not only do they satisfy the original questions, they raise even more!

Example, if I want the entire map at level 10 (10 meters)

Here you mention that the heights are "metres". Elsewhere, I have seem them interpreted as "feet". The manual doesn't seem to say what the units are. Are the advocates of "feet" mistaken? (Now that is a question I never thought I'd ask...)

Higher terrain can be done, but not within the game. It is tricky and done with Chlanda's map editor. I don't know how to do it. Redleg and others are better at that than I.

Ahh... If it involves what I fear it might, it certainly would be tricky. Fortunately, my experience building Map Thing has given me some insights, and I think I may have found an easier (for me at least ) way. If all works out, look out for ectizen's SP:WAW Mountainiser real soon now!

*sigh* final edit to add: The Mountainiser worked exactly as I had envisioned it. Sadly, my vision was flawed. There will be no Mountainiser in the foreseeable future.

For PBear, I think there is a terrain effects list in the manual.

In the main directory of 4.5, there's a file called terrain.txt that lists movement costs for the various unit types.

Water, leg units can move on coral and shallow water. They will drown in anything deeper.

This doesn't seem to be the case all the time. In your scenario "Blood-Soaked Trail" (scen082 by default), there is a ford. The starting positions for several Japanese units appears to be Height -3, Shallow Water. The hex contains a "trail" icon, but the information for the hex doesn't mention a trail (the endpoints of the ford containing land do mention a trail). These units aren't drowning. Why? How?

edit to add: Feel free to ignore the above question - it seems I have forgotten how to read... the answer is "because it's -3 shallow water", isn't it...

extra edit to add: However that raises a question: Is the depth of the water in any way related to its height? Is a -3 Coral Reef possible? How about -1 Deep Water?

I'll have my fine-toothed comb at the ready, awaiting your response

[Don]

Originally posted by pbear:
I found it, my assumption was that the start lines were a function of map making since the exit and renforcement flags are placed in the map making process. Now when I pick the start line flags and place them left to right on the map every time the flag is in the same row as another flag the first one dissapears. So if I put one flag on the left edge and another on the right edge is the start line between these two flags?

Thanks everyone

pbear,

I'm no expert on this, but when I wanted to have N-S forces here is what I did and it worked. Forget about the start lines and place your forces where you want them. Then, when you are done, go into the start-line editing screen and hit the red flag, which is the auotmatic start line generator. You should have what you want then - it worked for me when I did it. WB or someone else may know a better technical way of doing it, but I just bumble around and find what works for me!

[Mikimoto]

Hello Sir.
Now I have no time for design, but I save the Messages for the future. I hope this is the class I had not in School. You are a Master Teacher.
What do you think aboout linking all you classes in a file ready to download? In the future, of course. It can be named: Magistral classes from Wild Bill Rider. Warmaster Volume I.
Thanks thanks tanks.

[skukko]

Oh whellcome to all new map-engineers Lots of you and old lost 'boys' from the 'hood..

This mapthing must be taken carefull by doing your own tests and speaking of great map after it really works I know it. Nothing bogs me more than repairing some oddities just because I was too fascinated of what I did and...that is other story.

Deploylines:As Don said you can use automated liner. That redflag reads info of visibility-value. If your visibility is set to as default 21, (noon) 'liner' draws two lines that have 21 hexes between them. If you want to start far, put visibility to 80 in 100hex wide map. This is easily learned way to do it.

And I repeat Don's words, don't take a problem of deploy lines, just set units to map and thats it. (BUT, this is scenario-design, don't try this in pbem-maps ! If you can deploy where ever you want in pbem, you have done wrong. Fix to this error is to get map back into editor and draw deploylines again and check that number one player is in correct side of the map...)

Streams/canals/rivers: What you mean by saying that one hex is 50yards/meters and level10 is ten meters or ten yards? Forget it.- Yes. Forget it. Unless...-later..River is just as wide as it stays playable and don't kill the game by leaving AI to make an assault with rafts. So random maps use streams...

When you want nice stream to run over your map, first you'll fill whole map with level 10. Then you think where you are going to have that stream. If you want to bend it somewhere, say left , pick up rocks to your drawing tool and add rocks/rough to that place. Just one or two hexes. Do like this for a while and when you have imagned by this where you want to lay that stream, pick up stream tool and draw it from Curve to Curve. If you draw it straight, it looks like it.

Now you have a piece of stream there. You want it to be river? Do it. This is automated. But why to do automated things as you can do it in hard way? Convert stream to 6 hex wide river and pick up swamp tool, left click to fill river with swamp. Don't be carefull on clicking on outside areas of the river, we'll throw some mud there later. Now when your beautyfull river is converted to ugly swamp which is, -2 of altitude. Now you can do many differend things, but we wanted to do stream/river. Pick up swamp/ take marshes. Leftclick along the swampy area, try to focus to do this into the middle of the swamp-icons, this way it looks best. Now you got flooded out river. To make it little more narrow, simply take highgrass tool or mud and fill in river banks. Final color is made by filling banks with threes. Good result is achieved by simply cooking coffee, drinking it and practising.

Different things? If you fill this swampriver-skecth with mud, it rises to zero-level. If you fill it with plain/eraser- tool it keeps its altitude status(-3?). If you fill it with sand tool, it rises to -1. What I do, is that I use eraser-tool and fill whole bottom with it. Wider the area is better result. After having whole swampy area filled by leftclicking, I'll add either mud, as now it don't rise the hight, (it stays down in-2) or highgrass to give it color. You can also remove Highgrasses +1 by clicking with eraser in the middle of 3 grasshex. I'll put in mud. Then I build a road in there. This can be done also in all terrain stances: Jungle, desert, winter, summer and rough. Result varies between these alot, -and use of them all in same map is differend story.

Idea of this post is, test everything and go further on and test them as they were not designed, this way you learn capabilities of your tools and can after that start to think about historical, or hysterical maps. I don't get much fun doing histo* maps, they are just plain copies... but atleast I can use this copymachine

mosh

´There were more thing I wanted to say, but... I think this is enough for now..