Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

Gary Grigsby's strategic level wargame covering the entire War in the Pacific from 1941 to 1945 or beyond.

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esteban
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RE: Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

Post by esteban »

ORIGINAL: Xargun
ORIGINAL: esteban

About the only thing you can do if KB hangs around Pearl Harbor is perhaps fly your fighters off of the U.S. carriers, back to Pearl, for turn 2 air cover of PH. Maybe you will shoot down enough Japanese planes to start wearing out KBs air crews.

However, if I am Japanese, with anything other than the strictly historical strikes, I bomb the heck out of PHs airfield by turning the Vals loose on it. The Val's 250 KG bombs will not penetrate either the deck or belt armor of anything on battleship row, and 70-80% of your bombers will go after the U.S. battleships, to the exclusion of the other shipping in the port. So divebombing the port on turn one is largely wasted.

You must be to far away from PH.. Most of my port attacks (range 3) were with 800 kg bombs which will blow through any armor.. In fact both of the ships I sunk at PH (a DD and the Arizona) died from 800 kgers..

Xargun

No, I always attack from range 3 at most, sometimes range 2. I don't want to suffer any more op losses than I have too.

The Vals don't drop 800 KG bombs, the Kates do. Vals still drop 250 KG bombs. In fact, in WiTP, there doesn't seem to be a difference between their normal and extended range bomb loads. Both loads are a single 250 KG bomb.

Oh, how I miss my little 60 KG trash busters!! [:D]
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brisd
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RE: Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

Post by brisd »

I am playing my first scenario 15 as Japan vs AI (hard) and I tried hanging around Hawaii for a few extra days. I thought I had my CV aircraft properly balanced for attacks vs port/airfield and naval targets plus a generous CAP setting. I hadn't had a great PH strike, no BB's sunk according to intel, I was on my fourth day (I hung around an extra day as I was under a storm the day before that cancelled my aircraft) and suddenly after my strike on PH I get a message about TF1 reacting to carriers and vice versa for AI. That afternoon a full strike of SBD's and a dozen Buffalos attack KB and of course, ZERO CAP show up. [&:] Soryu takes three 1000 pounders, Kaga 1, Hiryu 2 and luckily Akagi's bounced off its belt armor. KB strike is 12 Vals unescorted, all misses vs the Lady Lex TF. Next turn I see Soryu aflame, in serious trouble, Kaga and Hiryu both damaged and afire but operational. I got my revenge, sinking Lex and damaging most of her escorts with a 100+ strike next day. Soryu may not make it. So be careful of your strike settings and hanging around PH too long. I'd trade carrier for carrier any day as the Allies.
"I propose to fight it out on this line if it takes all summer."-Note sent with Congressman Washburne from Spotsylvania, May 11, 1864, to General Halleck. - General Ulysses S. Grant
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mogami
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RE: Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

Post by mogami »

As the USN be careful about tampering around with Kwajalean or getting within 8 hexes of that base. IN PBEM game there could be several hundred Betty/Nell there with A6M2 escort by the 3rd day. As Japan closing the back door is something I take care of ASAP.
There are 2 Nell groups (54 ac) in Home Islands that belong to SOuthern Area Army. While Kwajalean is not assigned to that HQ these groups can move with out PP cost. They can reach Kwajalean on day 1. It takes 2 days to get a A6M2 group there. (Both groups already in Kwajalean Area are A5M so before they upgrade and spend the time repairing I send a A6M 2 group there. It moves on to Rabaul after that base has fallen)
The net result is any USN CV getting within 8 hexes (escort range ) will be atacked by 3 Daitai at least of Nell with A6M2 escort.
Just save yourself the grief and "stay off my property" There is nothing there worth the risk.
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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
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captskillet
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RE: Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

Post by captskillet »

As the USN be careful about tampering around with Kwajalean or getting within 8 hexes of that base. IN PBEM game there could be several hundred Betty/Nell there with A6M2 escort by the 3rd day. As Japan closing the back door is something I take care of ASAP.

I went to Kwajalein in late DEC 41 (vs AI Historical) with all 4 US carriers and blew the hell outta of it along with catching several BB's, CA's and tons of transport shipping. It was PH in reverse!!! [:D]

With 4 carriers to provide CAP they can hold their own!
"Git thar fust with the most men" - Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest

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Luskan
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RE: Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

Post by Luskan »

I just took out both allied cvs in turn 3 of two different pbems because they used them right, and then changed their minds.

2 important points no one has raised.

1. As the allies, at pearl, you can pound on the wake invasion on turn 2 - knowing you're safe. There are escape routes west north and south from KB - you can loose them if you need to in a few turns so get your hits in now and save those wildcats at wake from extinction.

2. If the japs LINGER around PM, the allied cvs shouldn't linger. For starters, they are going to be between KB and that nice fat group of 8-10 tankers full of replenishment fuel for KB. That is a fat target that will burn nicely. They have an unbeatable headstart for a charge across the southern tip of the SRA that betties and nells that early in the game won't be able to contest (LOTS of japs transports down there, not to mention the Ryujo and 2 cs ships all alone). Usually by turn 7 this is a bad idea, but early on you've got tired betty/nell pilots, all the nells upgraded to betties last turn and are all now "damaged" as a result, and best of all, if you do get sunk not only do you get your cvs back later, but you have taken some sting out of the jap advance.

Going head to head with KB, or even hanging around the area as the allies is going to end badly. Hit wake, and then go any direction but east.
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ZOOMIE1980
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RE: Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

Post by ZOOMIE1980 »

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, In PBEM the Allied player might as well just assume the Japanese are going to stick around. Send the CV and all at sea TF south. (As well as assuming the CV will hit PH again go whole hog and assume the Japanese are going to move against Rabaul and the South Pacific without aircover. You will have your fun commence around 1 Jan 1942. Get every healthy ship headed there ASAP. Send you PT and subs to where the enemy PH strike force might be sitting for next day.

This is part of the recipe for generating the Japanese AI "Rabaul Death Spiral" of Jan 42.
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mogami
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RE: Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

Post by mogami »

ORIGINAL: captskillet
As the USN be careful about tampering around with Kwajalean or getting within 8 hexes of that base. IN PBEM game there could be several hundred Betty/Nell there with A6M2 escort by the 3rd day. As Japan closing the back door is something I take care of ASAP.

I went to Kwajalein in late DEC 41 (vs AI Historical) with all 4 US carriers and blew the hell outta of it along with catching several BB's, CA's and tons of transport shipping. It was PH in reverse!!! [:D]

With 4 carriers to provide CAP they can hold their own!


[X(] I can't wait for the AAR from PBEM (how did you get 4 USN CV by late Dec 41?)
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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!
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2ndACR
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RE: Counter-acting the Japanese Lingering Strategy

Post by 2ndACR »

Probably with the very varible setting.
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