Upgrading Ships

[latosusi]

I think, all you need is repair shipyard. I have done mine in Auckland. You will repair SYS
damage quicker by using bigger port

[ckk]

ORIGINAL: Toro

The manual is very specific in what's required for a ship upgrade: a port with a repair yard. I see no notation of damage level (ie, a ship must be below such 'n such). (section 13.3).

I agree that what the maual says. But experience shows that ships will not upgrade even in repair shipyards until system damage is reduced to a low level usually 5 or below. As the allies check on the PH BB's upgrades. They will not upgrade until system damaged is reduced. Manuals can't be expected to tell you everything.

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: ckk

ORIGINAL: Toro

The manual is very specific in what's required for a ship upgrade: a port with a repair yard. I see no notation of damage level (ie, a ship must be below such 'n such). (section 13.3).

I agree that what the maual says. But experience shows that ships will not upgrade even in repair shipyards until system damage is reduced to a low level usually 5 or below. As the allies check on the PH BB's upgrades. They will not upgrade until system damaged is reduced. Manuals can't be expected to tell you everything.

As matter of fact yes, manuals can be expected to tell you everything. Manuals are supposed to tell you everything. That many manuals do not is something else.

[Mr.Frag]

Common sense should tell you that the gaping holes in the side of the ship where water is coming in are going to get fixed before adding a couple AA guns onto the deck that is still not there because of the bombs that hit. You gotta weld the deck parts back on before you can mount a gun there. [;)]

Ships have to be serviceable to get upgraded. Sorry if you expect someone to tell you something which is so obvious. [:D]

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Common sense should tell you that the gaping holes in the side of the ship where water is coming in are going to get fixed before adding a couple AA guns onto the deck that is still not there because of the bombs that hit. You gotta weld the deck parts back on before you can mount a gun there. [;)]

Ships have to be serviceable to get upgraded. Sorry if you expect someone to tell you something which is so obvious. [:D]

That's does seem common sense to me. But manuals still ought to tell you everything. They are, afterall, the repository of a game's rules set.

Sorry if you expect someone to tell you something which is so obvious. [:D]

[Mr.Frag]

It's like explaining that disabled troops don't take part in combat. There are some things that should be beyond having to be said in a manual. This game is after all aimed at Advanced Grognard level wargamers.

I know there are 3 classes of people, Those that live for the manual, Those that scoff at manuals, and those who sit somewhere between of these two extremes. Can't please all three types with 1 manual. [:D]

[Tristanjohn]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

It's like explaining that disabled troops don't take part in combat. There are some things that should be beyond having to be said in a manual. This game is after all aimed at Advanced Grognard level wargamers.

I know there are 3 classes of people, Those that live for the manual, Those that scoff at manuals, and those who sit somewhere between of these two extremes. Can't please all three types with 1 manual. [:D]

I tend to agree re not being able to please everyone. Speaking for myself, I certainly don't live in manuals or pretend to be an expert on the system, but if the WitP manual is anything like the UV manual then it leaves a lot to be desired, because the latter didn't cut it by half.

It standfs to reason that a manual cannot be expected to parse to death each and every detail of a game with the scope of WitP and still come in at under thirty pounds; on the other hand, a gamer who reads the manual ought to be afforded the information necessary to make good sense of the game's action in all respects (i.e., not only understand what's happening but have a clear idea how and why it's happening).

I haven't enough time on the system or spent enough time inside the WitP manual to critically judge this product yet in those regards. It might be that with a game system so invloved the user manual needs to be complemented with a sort of game player's guide replete with game-designer and player notes.

One thing is for dead certain: it is impossible to be too clear.

[steveh11Matrix]

At 220 pages, the WitP manual is already pretty large. Since the game is a digital download, it's reasonable to assume that most of the players will have 'net access, that they will know that these forums exist, and that they'd come here.

So: "Thank you" to Mr. Frag for answering a question that I was anticipating asking myself!

Steve.

[Lex Talionis]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Yes, the English have to kiss some Aussie butt so they can use Sydney.[:D]

So if the English have the Royal Navy... what do the Scots, Welsh and (Northern) Irish have then? Are they not taking part as part of GREAT BRITAIN and being BRITISH???[:D] Did they sign the opt out clause for the War in the Pacific?

Para 66.6.5.i Ye tho Great Britain is a United Kingdom of independent countries brought together by a common island and its common animosity towards the French, Great Britain was cruelly attacked by the wicked Nippon Nation on 7th Dec 41. Great Britain has avowed to defend its overseas dominions, however, should you wish not to participate please tick one of the following options (or provide one of your own):
*We'd rather stay at home and grow our...(insert national vegetable here)
*Its a Sunday, nobody does anything except watch footy on a Sunday.
*That'd mean wasting valuable drinking time down the pub.
*Who cares about the Pacific, the Yanks don't even know we Scots, Welsh and Irish exist.

[:D][:D][:D]

[latosusi]

After PH attack, badly damaged BB's were upgraded while being repaired. I does not make
any sense to wait for them to be fully repaired and then to upgrade them. You might as well do it at the
same time therefore saving time they are going to be out of action. [;)]

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: latosusi

After PH attack, badly damaged BB's were upgraded while being repaired. I does not make
any sense to wait for them to be fully repaired and then to upgrade them. You might as well do it at the
same time therefore saving time they are going to be out of action. [;)]

Time for me once again to recommend use of the MkI JCYEAP user interface: Just Close Your Eyes And Pretend. They will still come back much faster than they did IRL, even though you do have to wait for the damage to repair first. That takes no time at all compared with the major rebuilds that Pennsylvania, Nevada, California, West Virginia and Tennessee went through....

Sisters Tennessee and California underwent essentially the same reconstruction program. Tennessee was out of service for 6 months, California for two years. The difference? The amount of damage suffered by each ship on 12/7/41. In this game however, none of the survivors will be out for anywhere near so long as two years, regardless of the amount of damage or of how extensive the upgrades.

[Oznoyng]

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Sisters Tennessee and California underwent essentially the same reconstruction program. Tennessee was out of service for 6 months, California for two years. The difference? The amount of damage suffered by each ship on 12/7/41. In this game however, none of the survivors will be out for anywhere near so long as two years, regardless of the amount of damage or of how extensive the upgrades.

Sounds like ship repair is too fast.

[tsimmonds]

Sounds like ship repair is too fast.

As regards major damage, such as was suffered by the US battle line at Pearl Harbor, that is my impression also. However I have not tested this theory. Where's fbastos.....?

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: dacharls

OK but isnt it so that 2/42 upgrade will happen to a ship(2/42) even if its first at port by 3/42? Or is it wasted?

They progress in succession. No refit is actually skipped. So if ya got a ship which has a refit for 2/42 and 10/42 and you finally send it to a naval yard for a refit in 10/42, it will first do the 2/42, then the 10/42, as the refits are linked in 'series".

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Sisters Tennessee and California underwent essentially the same reconstruction program. Tennessee was out of service for 6 months, California for two years. The difference? The amount of damage suffered by each ship on 12/7/41. In this game however, none of the survivors will be out for anywhere near so long as two years, regardless of the amount of damage or of how extensive the upgrades.

Sounds like ship repair is too fast.

Yes in some cases this is so but was a compromise as some simple AA refits only took a a couple of weeks while some took months (usually tied into other jobs such as major machinery/hull overhauls etc.) I believe for the major USN prewar BB class rebuilds the developers may take my suggestion into consideration that they be treated as hard coded conversions like AKs to ARs etc, with penalty/delay anywhere from 1 to 2 years in length.

[tsimmonds]

I believe for the major USN prewar BB class rebuilds the developers may take my suggestion into consideration that they be treated as hard coded conversions like AKs to ARs etc, with penalty/delay anywhere from 1 to 2 years in length.

Excellent! Hope this makes it in....

[rogueusmc]

Common sense should tell you that the gaping holes in the side of the ship where water is coming in are going to get fixed before adding a couple AA guns onto the deck that is still not there because of the bombs that hit. You gotta weld the deck parts back on before you can mount a gun there.

This make any kind of sense to ya?