The Rarity Follies

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 5:05 am

WE know there is a bug with cost calculation with historical ratings on. You should use true troop cost on, but historical characteristics off if you want the right cost, but since it seems to be off for all units, everybody seems to get a similar bargain...

The elites not getting the proper credit will get fixed in 5.02

[ June 17, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]

bud · Post by **bud** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 1:17 am

thank you all----thats all i have beeeeeen saying---its not criticism to those`s that have worked very hard on the game--(Paul)--its only a opinion that i share with everyone--to change the obb in league play --well is just impossible-(just tooooo many players)-so for now lets play with hist ratings off--

it should be stated in the league`s PLEASE

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:08 am

You can play with the ratings one - you just have to realize that ALL units are some percent cheaper than what they should be. Nobody is getting a benefit that I can tell, every body just gets to buy more units per 1000 pts, but i the sane ratio to the cost and experience they should.

Hope that makes sense. The historic ratings need to be left off if there is a need to have the victory point cost the same as the buy cost - that is the only descrpency I can find (though I only tested a small number of units...)

Del · Post by **Del** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 6:04 am

<<IF you don't like the OOB's you have an editor to change them. If you don't like how rarity works turn it off.
This game is like a tool kit. We give you the ability to do what ever you want.>>

Then how about giving us the opportunity to adjust the special op fire. Also, why do my units get a special op fire in my turn yet they use a shot from their allotment. Nothing 'special' there since I told them to fire and they lose the shot.

Panzer Leo · Post by **Panzer Leo** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 2:12 pm

I'm afraid, Paul, but I think there will be problems any time the troop qualities of the two battling nations are not the same. If you take e.g. a battle of '44 U.S.-Germany, the Sherman M4A3 (76) costs 129 at exp 70, the Kingtiger 130 at exp 65 (and it actually has 75, cause of elite status). This becomes even more dramatic, when shifting to '45 - the Sherman at 137 exp 70 and the King at 122 exp 60 (actually 70). So there will always be a problem, when one purchasing nation is closer to the zero-level (set costs in OOB) with it's experience then the other. :rolleyes:

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 6:56 pm

The "extra multiplier bug" is strange...I made a table of costs for all experience levels and found teh following adjustments per 1000 pts to get the ratios back to what they are supposed to be. We will address this problem soon.

exp correction per 1000 points
120 367
115 350
110 333
105 300
100 275
95 225
90 175
85 133
80 100
75 67
70 0
65 -133
60 -200
55 -210
50 -225
45 -230
40 -233
35 -215
30 -200

As to special opfire, there is only so much we can do so fast...be patient this is after all a free game and if we don't get "real games" on the market soon we will be in trouble...

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 8:43 pm

Paul,
FWIW, I would personally put your staff's brain power into profit-making ventures, and put ANY/ALL SPWAW stuff on the "back, back-burner".
It's not going to do any of us any good in the long run to see you guys fold, (or get bought out ala AH) because your outstanding support of a money-losing (yes guys, this times away from development on games you buy actuall COSTS Matrix money) game prevented your business from getting your market share.

sven · Post by **sven** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 8:51 pm

Originally posted by Grumble:
Paul,
FWIW, I would personally put your staff's brain power into profit-making ventures, and put ANY/ALL SPWAW stuff on the "back, back-burner".
It's not going to do any of us any good in the long run to see you guys fold, (or get bought out ala AH) because your outstanding support of a money-losing (yes guys, this times away from development on games you buy actuall COSTS Matrix money) game prevented your business from getting your market share.

Grumble I think we all accept that SPWAW is going to go the way of the dodo. I think a lot of the discussion being made here may be valuable for CA/CL though. The oob issues and new features can transfer anyway.

regards,
sven

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 9:07 pm

Grumble I think we all accept that SPWAW is going to go the way of the dodo. I think a lot of the discussion being made here may be valuable for CA/CL though. The oob issues and new features can transfer anyway.

One hopes, but I dunno when I see posts for ANOTHER release, that the economics of what that entails are clear.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 9:31 pm

There is a fine line to be towed between commitment to what we have and work on what goes forward. Trust me, any patch that comes out at this point will notbe a significant time drain, but if we can give up a few days to get some things fixed, then that helps our Mega Campaign sales and we need those to keep some small semblance of cash flow to help with costs fo the new games.

Problems with SP:WaW mean less MC sales and decisions like how much one thinks a couple days of bug fixes to SP:WaW will return in MC sales is why folks go to business school!

But the reasons you mention is why a great many of the issues (any are not bugs per se) will not be fixed in the near term.

We do have at least one more MC coing out, and it is a need that we reach our goal of 7500 or so in combined sales between them this year. We are about 1/3 of the way in the first one, and hope to see that pick up now that our teething problems are working out.

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 2:40 am

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
WE know there is a bug with cost calculation with historical ratings on. You should use true troop cost on, but historical characteristics off if you want the right cost, but since it seems to be off for all units, everybody seems to get a similar bargain...

The elites not getting the proper credit will get fixed in 5.02

[ June 17, 2001: Message edited by: Paul Vebber ]

Paul
Since you know there is a bug with the historical rating on this may be redundent. The effect of turning the historical ratings off is most pronounced in the human vs AI games. I am playing a WWII Campain, German vs Russian, I descided to try the game with the historical ratings off and discovered that the AI purhases approximatly 1/2 of the forces it usually purchases with the historical rating on. This is Med Game setting. I am use to seeing 5 to 6 pages of enemy units at the end of the game but this time there were only 3 pages. You are probebly aware of this, but I just thought I'd make sure.

You guys are doing such a great job I almost hate to point out any problems, almost.

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 4:19 am

well if the discount is across the board ..it presents no real problem in PBEM but i can see how it might affect AI play ..
Au any rate ok dang it i will by the next MC even if it is german .. But as long as we are talking about purchase prices of units not matching OOB values we should look at the difference between what a unit costs when you buy it and what that same unit is worth in terms of victory points as shown on the Unit Screen in the game ...
if a King Tiger is 169, discounted due to bug 130 when bought, it's UnitScreen shows it is worth maybe 250 points , if killed for victory points depending on what it's actual experience rating is ..
some thing to look at anyway

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 6:07 pm

Since the game can't know the actual experience of a unit until it is bought (they are randomly assigned when bought), the purcahse cost is based on the average.

THe victory cost of a particular unit is based on its actual experience, so a lucky buyer could get 2 "above average" Tigers for a bargain price, but then pays the piper if they get toasted...

In battalion sized battles or larger it evens out, but observant players will find which of their units are "low experience" and hence more expendable in VP terms, for certain tasks.