Electronic Arts Internal Practices Exposed

[Hexed Gamer]

The hardest I ever "worked", was in the army hehe.

20 hour days during basic, what a hoot.

Then again I was 17, all the parts worked properly. I didn't have a wife family or home life to manage either.

Once you pass 30, and have a wife and kids, that work till you drop crap either kills you with stress overload, or you end up single again (or both).

As I see it, (if I was the employer), if I had enough work to justify one guy near killing himself with 16 hour days indefinitely, I would make the incredible leap of logic and hire a second guy and make both work 8 hour days instead.
I wouldn't hire two and make both work 16 hour days either.
That's worth 4 employees.

It's popular to slag game guys (the guys actually making the stuff) with comments like "the guy doesn't know squat about (insert game example here)".
I am just as willing to slag company owners with comments like "the guy can run a company into the ground, but that's about all he actually can do".

I have actually watched companies come and go in a brief flash simply because the person really didn't know what they were doing.

It takes more than money to make a product.
And just because you have money (and can open a business) does not mean you have clue one what you are doing.

Of course, there will always be those that KNOW what they are doing. Some will do just that, set up shop, score your money and vanish.
I have nothing nice to say about that behaviour.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer
Once you pass 30, and have a wife and kids, that work till you drop crap either kills you with stress overload, or you end up single again (or both).

That's why I've heard some Game Companies even put spotters in the waiting room. To drum up conversation on whether you have, or ever much have had, a girlfriend or wife. Others just ask outright in the interview itself, despite some laws against it. One way or the other though they want to know this as much as anything.

If there are honest game companies out there that don't do the above. Then they still try to accomplish the same by simply looking at your ring finger and then using demographics and stereotypes to accomplish the rest. Age of course being the most important element.

The most important thing is just to establish that the individual is capable of not having a SO issue within the timeframe of the project. After that you expect him to quit anyway. Generally because the "promised bonus" doesn't actually materialize itself.

"Uhm, well you see our sales projections weren't entirely accurate... And sales have not been what they should have been... Perhaps if everyone had worked just a little harder... I'm very sorry but hey our next title is looking really good. I'd expect a huge bonus for someone as talented and experienced as you now are. Surely if you stayed on for that project there would be huge rewards at the end (wink. wink.)

That's actually my biggest complaint. These "kids" LOVE gaming. They LOVE who they are working for and what they are doing, at least at first. They don't have wives, or girlfriends, or lives... any many don't even want those things. They don't entirely even mind the extremely long hours.

But much is done on the promises and expectations that they will still get rewarded in the end. With Money, CompTime, Large Bonuses, etc. And in most cases none of those things are ever recieved at any level.

Then they quit and go on to the next company, which promises the same things... rinse repeat.

[Hexed Gamer]

"Uhm, well you see our sales projections weren't entirely accurate... And sales have not been what they should have been... Perhaps if everyone had worked just a little harder... I'm very sorry but hey our next title is looking really good. I'd expect a huge bonus for someone as talented and experienced as you now are. Surely if you stayed on for that project there would be huge rewards at the end (wink. wink.)

Yes, sadly I am sure, a lot of people out there find out valuable life lessons the hard way.

It's easier to push around a loner or someone who doesn't have support from say a SO.
Also, the young have not seen enough of their world yet.
I didn't know a fraction then, of what I know now.

Someone trying to get me to work 16 hour days as the rule, would get to hear the sound of my laughter as I mocked them while leaving.
Yeah right buddy.

[Jonathan Palfrey]

A truly shocking story... But the people who make it possible are the people who put up with such treatment -- including, apparently, some responders on this forum. If many of those asked to work ninety-hour weeks flatly said "No", the company would soon learn not to ask. What surprises me is that so many people apparently say, "OK".

Apparently, you have to be crazy to work in the games industry, or at least in some parts of it. But what a lot of crazy people there are in the world.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey

A truly shocking story... But the people who make it possible are the people who put up with such treatment -- including, apparently, some responders on this forum. If many of those asked to work ninety-hour weeks flatly said "No", the company would soon learn not to ask. What surprises me is that so many people apparently say, "OK".

Apparently, you have to be crazy to work in the games industry, or at least in some parts of it. But what a lot of crazy people there are in the world.

I think the point is that not only are they manipulated into working those kinds of hours, but they are manipulated into thinking that they will eventually get a "reward" for doing so. Which just never materializes. So while its certainly crazy to work those hours for that long, and certainly some do it with no promises at all. Others do so thinking they will get comp time, bonuses etc.

Since they actually work for the company the bonus structure's are apparantly only loosely defined, if not entirely verbally defined. Even with dev-publisher agreements its not uncommon to find publishers who will promise you x% of profits and then assure that there are no profits by manipulating costs, overhead, and expenditures. Thats why its far better to get $x per item sold unless you have reason to trust the pub etc.

There are so many in this world that will rape you in every way possible to gain themselves. The victims are generally the younger, the more desperate and the more naive. And some just never learn and remain victims their whole life.

Imagine your just out of school and have played 1000 too many video games your whole life thus far. Wasting away your life according to your parents? There is no greater goal or objective than in "showing them" what good actually came of all that. And there is no scarier thought then thinking your parents were correct and your chance at a real job is shot. These kids have more to prove than anyone else. And companies like EA give them the chance to do it. I half think they would sign their soul away to the devil if it meant they got to work on EA games all day.

I suppose it is, one way or the other, in many ways the individual employees own fault. Companies like EA only do it because they CAN do it. But these "kids" often don't know they are being abused a lot of times until its too late. The project is done, the promises empty, and they finally quit... and EA just hires a new bunch of fools...

[Jonathan Palfrey]

And all this work so that people can play a game for a while. Wargames probably last longer, but the mass-market games are pretty transient products. In less time than it took to develop the game, I suppose most players will have tried it, had enough of it, and moved on to something else. A year or two after release, and who cares any more?

I've sometimes thought wistfully of writing a small game by myself in my spare time, so that I could do it the way I wanted it. But to work full time for a games company? I've never even considered it. Fortunately for me, it seems.

[Jonathan Palfrey]

A company would have to offer me something like a million dollars a week (in your money) to make me even try to work ninety-hour weeks. I can't believe any company would be silly enough to make such an offer -- at least not with the intention of honouring it.

It seems a bit odd that the USA is a rich country and yet its people are still willing to work so hard. Over here in Europe, most people just wouldn't do it.

[Pippin]

If many of those asked to work ninety-hour weeks flatly said "No", the company would soon learn not to ask. What surprises me is that so many people apparently say, "OK".

Easier said that done. It is a known policy at one dev studio in my area that anyone who refuses to do the extra hours ends up kicked back out onto the street. Every day there are resumes coming in for positions. The human resources dept. does not even know where to stack all the portfolios that come in. It is written when people join that there MAY be what is called CRUNCH TIME during a project. However, this crunch time seems to be all the time. You either do it, or you find yourself terminated. And they also can find any excuse for it too. Perhaps you didn't abide by the dress code on one saturday, or perhaps someone unknown said they heard you say a degratory comment to them. In other words, it is far to easy to find any reason to boot you out.

It is hard enough to get into these companies for people. And no one wants to end up going back to McDonalds.
No offence to people who work at McDonalds, you got to do what you need to do.

[Hexed Gamer]

It's not the money, it's the lie.

And what most can't see, is the person doing the lying is likely the slave labourer too.

You go to a post secondary education option and learn the cool trade of something in software related work.
Then you pat yourself on the back and tell yourself how clever you were for avoiding one of those crappy minimum wage jobs.
Because you go to work in an office, and you ever wear a suit.

And that's basically it I think.

To many people must be buying into some sort of illusion.

Best job I ever had was delivering furniture.
I certainly never trained for it.
I was good though, and the senior man on the delivery staff thought so too. I worked with him, and we got all the "better" routes.
But no matter what route, it was heave ho for 20 minutes, then rest 20 minutes getting to next place. Not complicated though.
It didn't matter if I was grubby and sweaty, I was lifting furniture. And I hate suits too.
No office, no office politics as a result.
Just me and the other guy.
We sat in the truck and listened to our tunes loudly if we wanted. Munched on junk food and generally enjoyed the day.

And I don't recall putting in 90 hour weeks.

I was not making a fortune, but you should see my hobby room. I bought all that stuff in the 4 years I delivered furniture for the most part.

As was mentioned, these people are likely ruining their health so one of two things can happen.

A. customer buys game, plays intensely for a month, and then moves on to next game.
B. downloads your game for free, plays intensely for a month, and then moves on.

Nope, not even the million bucks is a fair trade for my life eh.

People will continue wanting these programs, after all, what's the harm to them.
40 bucks at EB for a one month fix of game X, and who cares if the poor saps that created it are being worked like well paid equals to slave labour.
What good is the money to you, if you are killing yourself eh.

Companies exist to make money.
If people are willing to let themselves be reduced to slave labour, inevitably some companies will exploit that.

[Jonathan Palfrey]

Hello Pippin... Yes, I expected that the company would throw people out if they said "No", I merely felt that the company would find itself in difficulty if it threw out lots of people, especially in mid-project. You can hire new people, but when a project is half-done and in a frantic hurry, can you make them perform when they have to learn about it before they can work on it?

Apart from that -- and apart from my own feeling that I'd be happy and relieved to make my exit from such a company -- I think you paint an appallingly grim picture of the US labour market.

If these young guys are capable of programming high-selling games, I suppose they're not stupid. I can't believe that their only employment opportunities are drudgery at Macdonalds or slavery at Electronic Arts. There must be many better possibilities if they took the trouble to look for them.

I've never been any good at job-hunting myself, but even so, ALL my jobs have been comfortable office jobs and I've never been overworked in any of them. Admittedly, my early jobs didn't pay well, but in those days I didn't spend much and it didn't bother me.

[Marc von Martial]

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey

A company would have to offer me something like a million dollars a week (in your money) to make me even try to work ninety-hour weeks. I can't believe any company would be silly enough to make such an offer -- at least not with the intention of honouring it.

It seems a bit odd that the USA is a rich country and yet its people are still willing to work so hard. Over here in Europe, most people just wouldn't do it.

Well that must be a spanish thing then [;)]

[Marc von Martial]

I work 70 hours a week easily, for most of the part much more. It´s not because somebody is forcing me to do so (unless it´s impatient fans [:'(] hehehhe ) or because we´re all workaholics. It´s a matter of surviving.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey
I merely felt that the company would find itself in difficulty if it threw out lots of people, especially in mid-project. You can hire new people, but when a project is half-done and in a frantic hurry...

You keep them from quiting by promising them more and bigger bonuses, ample comptime, etc. once the game is done. In all the "excitement" of making an EA-style game it becomes easy to buy into how great the game will be when your a part of its creation. Thus they blindly and naively believe many of the promises. In the end they don't get the bonuses or not nearly to a suitable level and if they do get comp-time they seldom get a chance to ever use it as a new project immediately begins and the "crunch" is on again from day one. Generally they quit then. Which is a perfect time to bring in a new team for the new project. Employees also convieniently never build up any vacation time/priveledges this way, etc. Win/Win for the Employer.

I think you paint an appallingly grim picture of the US labour market.

Not that these practices aren't employed in other industries but its much more common place, especially to these extremes, in the software industry because of the unique combination of ample youthful willing but naive talent and constant strict project-oriented deadlines. Mostly other industries in the US couldn't get away with such practices. Again at least not to such extremes and with such frequency.

I can't believe that their only employment opportunities are drudgery at Macdonalds or slavery at Electronic Arts. There must be many better possibilities if they took the trouble to look for them.

Sure they leave the industry altogether and we get even crappier games.

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey

It seems a bit odd that the USA is a rich country and yet its people are still willing to work so hard. Over here in Europe, most people just wouldn't do it.

Why would that seem odd to you. America works so damn hard so we can preserve what we do have. I find it hard to believe pepole in Europe don't work hard and it a USA thing.

[SlapBone]

ORIGINAL: Pippin

I can not mention names but that industry gets worse than what you even see at EA. A co-worker of mine (game developer) was forced for a year to work from 9 am to 4 am literaly. You may think this is fiction but the poor chap had to do this for real and pass out at his desk. With a baby on the way, he left the company as he could not take it anymore. Unfortunately, they had forced him to sign a 5 year non-competition agreement. He has still 2 years left to wait, so he is not permitted to apply to any other console game developer. If he does he will get sued. So in the meantime he has changed his profession, why? Because he wants to work, as ironic as that may seem.

Tell him to move to Texas. We a "right-to-work" state. Non-competes don't hold water here.

[Jonathan Palfrey]

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

I work 70 hours a week easily, for most of the part much more ... It´s a matter of surviving.

Hi Marc, I can understand you working long hours if you really enjoy your work and can't think of anything better to do. But "surviving"? You mean you'd die if you didn't? How come?

It seems to me that at least educated, intelligent people in a wealthy country can earn a comfortable living without overworking. If they work harder, what does it get them? Just some extra money to buy luxuries they don't really need. It seems preferable to me to look after your health, your family, your peace of mind...

I worked almost 12 hours yesterday, because there was a deadline and I'm willing to be flexible. But I average slightly less than 8 hours a day -- and I keep track of it because I'm a contractor, paid by the hour.

I like it that way. If I overwork, I get paid for it; if I underwork, I don't need to feel guilty about it.

[Jonathan Palfrey]

ORIGINAL: Veldor

Sure they leave the industry altogether and we get even crappier games.

And they should leave an industry that treats them like that. I don't really care what happens to companies like Electronic Arts anyway. I more often like games produced by one-man operations... such as Frank Hunter and Sean O'Connor. Maybe these guys overwork, but at least then they're doing it to themselves and they're their own masters.

[Hexed Gamer]

It seems a bit odd that the USA is a rich country and yet its people are still willing to work so hard. Over here in Europe, most people just wouldn't do it.

Hmm I have been watchng the responses to that comment.

The US economy might be "rich" collectively, but that is of no use assessing large sectors of its population.

Because that same comment could be said of almost every developed nation on the planet.

This all started off about us discussing one single company that clearly doesn't give a shit about the grunts in the trenches doing all the hard work.
That doesn't say anything about the nation involved though. Heck even my generalisations are never that bad hehe.

Anyone being paid a programmers wage, is likely being paid a good bit more than mimimum wage.
Anyone working for a company that will make promises it doesn't keep, and continues to work there, deserves to work there in a lot of cases.

It's a free country last time I looked down south.

If EA is run by management that could be summed up as assholes, then go work elsewhere.
If your credentials are worth a hoot you won't suffer long.

Considering how much is out there, and considering all the variables available to work with, there is no excuse to suffer.

Now as for people doing it willingly intentionally and happily, well some people are obsessed, and some workaholics.
And of course we all know, the self employed consider every minute of every day as potentially working hours.

You get the life you look for sometimes.

[Jonathan Palfrey]

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

This all started off about us discussing one single company that clearly doesn't give a shit about the grunts in the trenches doing all the hard work.
That doesn't say anything about the nation involved though. Heck even my generalisations are never that bad hehe.

You're right, of course, and your other comments are good ones. And yet there seems to be at least something in the generalization. Americans are notorious over here for how few holidays they take. In much of western Europe, things virtually shut down in mid-summer because large numbers of people disappear for a month. I work at a large site, and it's a ghost town around August, hard to get anything done because most people aren't there.

But I've never lived or worked in America so I don't actually know what goes on there, it's just hearsay.

[Marc von Martial]

Hi Marc, I can understand you working long hours if you really enjoy your work and can't think of anything better to do. But "surviving"? You mean you'd die if you didn't? How come?

To survive with this company in the game industry.