Feedback on MCNA - Got Any?

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 5:12 am

Thanks Scot! That is a very encouraging post on your part and the rest of you. Thanks for this fine feedback. It helps a lot!

WB

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 10:56 pm

Some of you have your MCNA. The rest of you will be receiving yours in a matter of days.
I'm interested in hearing some feedback on the scenarios themselves. It would be good to know if you found them winnable but difficult...how difficult?

Are they interesting? Do they seem fair? Do they have a historical flavor.

Notice if you will that the designer's name is in the bottom right hand corner of the scenario. Thus you can write him directly if you wish about the battle he has designed.

I've got listening ear and an open mind (open does not mean vacant ). Fire away!

Wild Bill

Wild Bill & MCNA Team,

I'm on 'The Slowdow'. I've taken the direct path the entire way so far. The battles are definately winnable, especially the defensive ones. They are interesting - the historical flavor is definatley there. The maps are really excellent. I like the way the terrain dictates the battle location - fighting for a mountain pass, or between the ocean and the escarpment. The Opfor set ups are realistic - tricky without being unrealistic.

A couple criticisms; The British attacks (in defensive battles) lack weight. Once you destroy the first wave, it is over. I havn't had a defensive/meeting battle yet that the defense was really tested. I would consider myself a good player, which brings up another topic? Is is possible to have a more 'difficult' path for more experienced players, which give more 'points'? That way different abilities could enjoy the MC. I've heard some say it is too hard. It would be for me if i were just learning the game. Right now, the battles all seem 'medium', in order to please the most players - an understandable position unless you can offer the choice.

My only complaint is that i can't pick the core force. Yes, i know it isn't realistic/historical, but it is the most fun part of a campaign. It is the one thing that is making me loose interest in the MC. It is more like a series of scenario's, rather than a campaign. I can't even 'name' my units and have the name carry from battle to battle.

What is MC Three going to be? I'm guessing you are working on it already. My vote is for a US or Russian Campaign. NA & Sicily would be interesting. The invasion of S. France would as well. Kursk (including leadup & aftermath) from the russian standpoint might be good to.

PS. What is matrix's position on using the maps and the battles from the mega campaign for other battles/campaigns? I'm sure it is all copyrighted material, but could we use it after a period of time, say when the MCNA stops selling? Thanks !

davidmiller · Post by **davidmiller** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 11:43 pm

WB, I love the campaign so far. I have 8 decisive and 6 draws with up to game 13 having a campaign score of 40 and then game 14 with a decisive win, having a score of 38. What happened?? Would that perhapes be because of me losing my staff to an airstrike during the 14th battle?? (No rest for the Weary) All in all, I find the campaign very enjoyable. True, I have the the worse problems with the 2lb AT guns and the Matilda II's. In the Searching for the Enemy scenario, I lost 8 afv's in a row to the same 57mm field gun. That particular gun don't miss and this was all on the same turn. He took out about a third of my total losses. I wish to thank you, your playtesters, the Matrix team and the people on the forum for making this a very enjoyable experience and also a learning tool during my time on the computer and for putting out a first class wargame with outstanding help which has been given anytime . You have my support and my money for all future games. Keep up with the mega campaigns. Thanks all.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Jul 15, 2001 11:59 pm

A_B, the thing about the British attacks is that, as a designer, it is very hard to make the AI attack well and make it challenging without just throwing huge numbers in there. So we try to do it with timing and reinforcements, a few suprises, etc. but what it comes down too is the AI is very predictable and very limited in what it can do. Plus we couldn't have all German-attack scenarios!

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 2:29 am

I am very greatful for these fine reports and critiques of the Desert Fox MC.

All of this will help us in the future. I truly hope we can do more.

Assembling a Mega Campaign is a lot of work...a LOT of work.

The end product is so much fun that it is well worth it.

I've made notes of all your comments, suggestions and criticisms. Your positive spirit in presenting them is much appreciated.

Again, my thanks personally and on the part of the MCNA team.

Wild Bill

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 2:34 am

Don, I know i'm being nit-picky, and i'm very early in the campaign. On a few of the early battles, the brit starting positions were tricky, but i was able to discover them with aggressive recon - battle #5 or so (don't remember the name) was typical. It was a meeting engagement along a road. There was a brit column coming in from an unexpected but realistic location (don't want to give it away for people who haven't played it). Because it started on the map, and moved on turn one, i spotted it. If it came in on turn 10 or so, i may have missed it, and would have made things a bit more interesting.

The only thing i'm disappointed with is not being able to pick a core, and especially being able to Name my units. I gave them company/platoon/team names, but it didn't save from game to game

Overall score so far 97%

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Mon Jul 16, 2001 2:37 am

Duly noted. Some good points. In case we do more, I'll suggest these changes.

I believe you said you had not tried any of the alternates. They might surprise you. Give 'em a try later,A-B.

Fantastic score, by the way! ..Wild Bill

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 12:22 am

OK, the MC is definatley starting to grow on me. I'm almost over having the core force picked for me. It definately speeds play up to not worry about upgrading or initial placement.

I just finished Antelat (sp). Got a strong draw, close to a marginal. Great map, horrendous defenses, feel sorry for the poor bloody infantry. I think i'll try the seaborne invasion of tobruk, if they have one. I don't want to try and dig the australians out of their defenses. 6.1, infantry, suppression, kills, etc. seems to make the whole thing more realistic - my perception of realistic anyway.

I can't turn C/C on though, it crashes the game everytime. Even if i delete the stell.prf file.

You know, these battles could be turned into a regular campaign or two. You could have the regular track, and then the special-ops track. The only advantage would be the core force choice, and upgrades. Something to consider once the purchase life is over.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Wed Jul 18, 2001 4:45 am

Are you running NT or WIN2000? We know CC crashes those and don't have a clue why...

mao · Post by **mao** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:10 am

Feedback. The things I hate are the things I really love. Trying to destroy Matilda IIs

, advancing through minefields under fire

- fun stuff.

I guess my only complaint (I am about 10-12 scenarios in) is there is a LOT of 'advance from left to right through the minefields and attack the town while under fire with limited arty or air support' type of scenarios - but that may just be due to my choice of scenarios.

Oh, and I want more arty support

And I think I should have received a promotion or something for killing Wavell...

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:28 am

What about mega-campaign editing tools!!

Tomo

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:46 am

You can move all the scenarios from MC into your regular scenario folder, and edit to your hearts content. At least i was able to use the maps from the MC. I was thinking of stringing all the 'special missions' together to create a german version of 'the rat patrol' campaign (only with a small german armored force instead of puny trucks).

I've found the scenarios to be varied enough. I just finish my first Wild Bill scenario, 'Getting to Mechili'. I thought it would be rather boring - dead flat desert terrain, meeting engagnement. Just ambush the brits, pull back, ambush them again, and then counter attack. But there wasn't enough time. On turn 9 of twelve, i realized i'd be luch to get a marginal loss, becase i wouldn't have time to counter attack and move far enough to get the vh's. I started blitzing all fast units around the flank, managed to a couple of the matilda's in the center with air power, and was finally able to move forward. Managed to get a BV by running motorcycles onto the last of the vh's, which the AI didn't defend very well for some reason, thank god. I'm at derna right now, and Rommel seems to still like me.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 5:46 am

Mao, you need to try a few of the alternate battles, though as you keep playing you are going to find some unusual main line battles too.

We purposely added in a good number of "different" scenarios (most of them are alternate choices) that can liven things up dramatically.

Example:

In the 4th Battle for Tobruk, you can opt for an amphibious assault on Tobruk Harbor...totally different battle from the usual one.

Or...

Derna, the 1st Battle, you can choose an alternate mission to head out and rescue some prisoners of war from the Brits.

So there are plenty of choices, just gotta find 'em and play 'em.

Wild Bill

mao · Post by **mao** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 8:53 pm

Oh ... I will probably play more of the alternate scenarios next time through; I just feel I am needed right at the spearhead of the main offensive. My commander needs me...

I did play the 'searching for the LRDG' scenario - which was fun.

mao · Post by **mao** » Thu Jul 19, 2001 9:01 pm

... and this is not a complaint, but I was so annoyed. I fired an 88mm FlaK at one of those stupid Vickers tanks and hit twice without destroying it

(but I well and truly routed them and they were out of the game)

[ July 19, 2001: Message edited by: mao ]

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 2:01 am

The 88 probably went right through it like a hot knife through butter without detonating.

Such a high powered shell could do just that.

Agreed, however, witness such an event or being in the vehicle would cause me to give serious thought to continuing the battle.

"What the hell was that?"

"Oh, just a German 88 shell that went straight through...not to worry Mate... Mate? Where'd he go? Who opened that hatch?"

Wild Bill

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 3:32 am

You can move all the scenarios from MC into your regular scenario folder, and edit to your hearts content. At least i was able to use the maps from the MC. I was thinking of stringing all the 'special missions' together to create a german version of 'the rat patrol' campaign (only with a small german armored force instead of puny trucks).

This is a little OT, but A_B's post got me thinking. Now A_B, this is not aimed at you, because you said nothing about releasing any scenarios or campaigns to the public. But I know scenario designers who would not like their work changed, so if you do use maps or scenarios for purposes other than the MC it would be a good idea to get permission from each designer, and probably from David Heath since he owns the MC. Otherwise that could really be a mess!

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 3:46 am

This is a little OT, but A_B's post got me thinking. Now A_B, this is not aimed at you, because you said nothing about releasing any scenarios or campaigns to the public. But I know scenario designers who would not like their work changed, so if you do use maps or scenarios for purposes other than the MC it would be a good idea to get permission from each designer, and probably from David Heath since he owns the MC. Otherwise that could really be a mess!

Don, i fully understand. On page one of this post i asked a question about the copyright. I'm especially interested in using the maps. I'm sure there won't be an 'issue' with this, but i did ask. Also, i think matrix should allow the battles to be used in a regular campaign once they stop selling the MC disks. If battles were changed for play balance, i can see where some of the designers would get ticked off. How many designers were there? I'm sure they could all be contacted.

The only goal would be to have more stuff to play. And of course not cost matrix any money by stealing sales. Although, in thinking about it, it could help there sales by offering a mini mega campaign for free - the first three battles, plus options, from MCNA

PS. Don,we're almost neighbors

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri Jul 20, 2001 4:28 am

PS. Don,we're almost neighbors

I noticed that! I used to go to Great America a couple times a year, but haven't been down that way for some time now.

Using stuff from the MC might be sticky, but as long as David OK's it, then I would ask the designers to use the maps. I don't really see where that would be a problem.

bobaloo000 · Post by **bobaloo000** » Sat Jul 21, 2001 10:19 am

Paul requested that some of us sitting on the sidelines chime in, so this is my go at it.

Just finished 1st scenario. I don't know how you folks who are on 5 or 6 or more do it. Took me over a week to finish this. For awhile all I could get done was one turn a night.

Random Musings.

WOW! This game is incredible. It plays like I always thought SP should, slow and steady, be patient, and try to get around those flanks!

The dreaded 2 pounder. Every time I turned around there was another one. Once I had it spotted I would call in the arty, then try to get close with infantry as I suppressed with armor. It's tough, but it seems to work.

Oh, did I mention mines? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! With not a lot of engineers I took it slow through the fields, still I lost a LOT of weapons.

Also I got a decisive victory, kind of surprised me. Another thing that surprised me, I was firing indirectly into a hex that had a 2 pounder but when I pressed the fire button the 2 pounder fired at me and took out my 251. What happened there?

I blew up an Ammo dump, wow was that fun to watch.

Can anyone tell me what the blue obj flag is for?

I'm playing it straight for the first three scenarios then I will try an alternate.

I wish at the end of the scenario we would get the same screen that appears in SPWAW showing number of units destroyed, casualties, etc.. Plus I would love to explore the battlefields after each one to see if I missed anything.

OK, this is a great game I'll be ordering Mega 2, keep them coming and keep up the good work.

Almost forgot, I don't mind not being able to pick units, but yes I'd like to rename some of the units as others have mentioned. Also I would like to deploy the forces.

[ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: bobaloo000 ]