Any problems with my map?

[Captain Cruft]

Yes after I posted I realised that the dreaded slot limitations might put the kibosh on that idea. Oh well ...

TBH it's India that bothers me even more than China. It's awfully empty even with the bases you added, and there's no garrison requirement.

[CobraAus]

I would like to see 2 new naval bases in Russia which were the home of the Soviet Pacific fleet
if posible I will folow up and find some details on both ports (size etc)
see map

Cobra Aus

[Herrbear]

I would think that Port Moresby should be a 0 or 1 port to start and then build up.

Source: Victory in Papua by Samuel Milner. Part of the US Army in WW II series.

Plans to make Port Moresby a large supply and communications area were well advanced. On 11 August (1942) the U. S. Advanced Base in New Guinea was established by USASOS with headquarters at Port Moresby. Its functions were to aid in the operation of the port and other ports in New Guinea. The port itself, shallow and suitable only for light traffic, was to be improved. Existing facilities permitted only one ship to be unloaded at a time, and that very slowly, with the frequent result that as many as two or three others had to wait in the roads to unload, exposed all the while to enemy attack. Since the existing harbor site did not lend itself to expansion, General Casey planned to develop Tatana Island (a small island in Fairfax Harbor to the northwest of the existing harbor) into an entirely new port. The new development, which would permit several ocean-going ships to be unloaded at one time, was to be connected with the mainland by an earth-filled causeway a half-mile long, over which would run a two-lane highway with a freeboard of two feet over high tide. The project was to be undertaken as soon as engineers and engineering equipment became available.12

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: bstarr

Andrew,
I still can't get over you map. It's outstanding. I'm a bit of a map enthusiast myself. Not that I have the talent to draw one; I just like studying them.

The idea I came up with was adding a few bases to China using locations of cities in China (btw, this is Don's fault - he has me hooked on China). Bases are more difficult to take than regular hexes and having a few more bases for the Japs to push through could slow down the theater (which, of course, is a good thing). Main problem is, these bases can also turn into supply hubs and air bases for the Japs, so I was careful where I put them. No bases were added where the distance served the Chinese defence - Ichang to Chingking, for instance.

Here are three cities that could be added to give China a much-needed defensive boost.
Liuchow (41, 37) - this gives the Chinese a defensible location making a Japanese flanking action from Nanning to Kweilin (isolating Wuchow) more difficult. City was historically important.
Linfin (50, 30) - likewise protects Honan. Not sure how important the city was, but it is on the map.
Tuyun (41, 35) - protects Kweiyang. not in as strategic an area as the above, but it does help.

Two more cities - these are two significant cities, but they are well inside Japanese lines. they could be added to give the Japs more to garrsion or just for historical interest. I believe they were industrial cities, but I don't know if I'd add the industry or not.
Tsinan (53, 33 or 53, 32)
Suchow (52,34)

another chinese city worth mentioning -
Ningpo (52, 40)

Byron

ps. minor change -
Haichow should probably have a port. Haichow would probably only qualify as a lvl 1 on it's own, but there were more facilities in the neighboring town of Laoyao; right next door, certainly in the same hex. Maybe just a lvl 2 or 3, though.

Byron

Do you have any information for garrisons of these new cities - either new troops or existing (in the OOB) units that should be moved there. Just adding them without garrisons makes then rather easy pickings. Also, any recommendations for attributes (supply, airfields, bars, etc).

Don

[Tristanjohn]

I brought up base discrepancies on the CHS test AAR awhile back. Here's the completed list (and I might well have missed some). I'll list the map reference first, followed by the underlying map data, then the hex number.


     ----------


Singora -- Songkhia (24,43)

Kota Bharu -- Khota Bharu (24,45)

Kiungshan -- Kiungahan (39,41)

Luangprabang -- Luang Prabang (34,36)

Pioting -- Paotang (53,29)

Bonin Islands -- Bonin (65,50)

Pagan -- Meiktila (64,61)

Tongarapu -- Tongatapu (90,121)

Pago-Pago -- Pago Pago (96,113)

Bikini Atoll -- Bikini (80,80)

Ha'apai -- Ha'apai Island (91,119)

Raiatea -- nothing (109,129)

French Frigate Shoals -- French Frigate Shoal (106,69)


     ----------


General comments:

I think jungle and forest hexes might be better distinguished. I can barely tell the difference between these two terrain types when they sit side by side.

Batan Island -- As noted in CHS thread, this is an island group so it should be Batan Islands, plural, at the least.

Roughly halfway up the Maldives chain sits Male Atoll. A short distance away on the Hulhule/Hulele/Hulule (spelling is diffcult to nail down) islet is a good site for an airstrip. It now is home to Male International Airport and reportedly can accomodate anything up to a 747-400.

[Andrew Brown]

Thanks for the list, Tristanjohn. I have not had time to chase these up yet (1.5 and other CHS stuff is keeping me too busy), but I will check them all as soon as I can.

I will make a few quick comments about a few things though:

ORIGINAL: Tristanjohn
Singora -- Songkhia (24,43)

I think Singora is more correct. I now use Singora in all my converted scenarios, and I think that it should be used in CHS as well.

Pagan -- Meiktila (64,61)

This one is a straight out mistake on my part. Pagan is correct - my conversion script got a bit carried away and changed the name without my realising it (there are 2 "Pagan" bases in the stock scenario). It should be fixed in CHS already.

General comments:

I think jungle and forest hexes might be better distinguished. I can barely tell the difference between these two terrain types when they sit side by side.

Yes, they could be made a bit easier to tell apart. This is only a cosmetic issue, though, so I don't know if I will ever change it.

Roughly halfway up the Maldives chain sits Male Atoll. A short distance away on the Hulhule/Hulele/Hulule (spelling is diffcult to nail down) islet is a good site for an airstrip. It now is home to Male International Airport and reportedly can accomodate anything up to a 747-400.

I have thought about adding Male before. The main thing that stops me from adding bases like this is that there are only so many free location slots, and I don't want to fill them up. Adding Male is a possibility, but it would have to wait for a future map revision.

Thanks again for your comments.

[Mike Solli]

Andrew,

I'm using your newest map with your recently released scenario 115 as the Japanese player. I'm working on the opening move and finally made my way to to Hawaii. Here's what happened when I scrolled the map (I hope the map shows up):

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Andrew,

I'm using your newest map with your recently released scenario 115 as the Japanese player. I'm working on the opening move and finally made my way to to Hawaii. Here's what happened when I scrolled the map (I hope the map shows up):

That looks to be a memory issue. Others have seen similar strange things when using the stock maps. Saving, rebooting the PC and starting the game again may be the only solution, but I am not sure.

[Tanaka]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Andrew,

I'm using your newest map with your recently released scenario 115 as the Japanese player. I'm working on the opening move and finally made my way to to Hawaii. Here's what happened when I scrolled the map (I hope the map shows up):

yep this is a memory issue. i get this with the standard map as well...

[Tanaka]

Andrew any reason you guys decided not to make the Suez and Panama Canals shallow water in the CHS map??? I thought you guys were discussing this and it seems like a great way to keep people from abusing subs in those areas...

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Andrew any reason you guys decided not to make the Suez and Panama Canals shallow water in the CHS map??? I thought you guys were discussing this and it seems like a great way to keep people from abusing subs in those areas...

I would like to wait and see whether there really is a problem before doing this. If Japanese players do crowd the connection lines with subs, and they do more damage than they should, then it will be changed.

[Mike Solli]

Thanks. I rebooted the program and it vanished. Old computer....

[Grotius]

Andrew, I'm liking the map, and I'm about to start a PBEM with it. But a couple questions:

1. I'm using the standard map, not any of your varying styles. I can't figure out how to toggle between the light-hex version and the no-hex-no-lines version. Hitting F6 toggles the hexsides, which works fine. But what I really want is to be able to toggle off control zones, malaria, and weather zones.

2. Actually, what I *most* want is a variant with the light hexes and malaria -- but no "weather" or "control" zones. In a PBEM, I have no use at all for the control zones; and I don't really need the weather. But I do love having the malaria zones outlined. That's pretty eye-opening. E.g., Broome is malarial; Darwin isn't. Batvia is; Palembang isn't. Any chance of a version of the map with light hexes & malaria but no weather zones or control zones?

3. Edit: in the absence of #2 above, I'm going to try alt 4. I'm not quite sure how to install alt 4, but I'll download it and try it.

[Grotius]

I like this map the more I work with it. Great work! I have some quibbles, but on the whole, it's a big improvement. But I have three more questions:

1. Edit: I installed alt 4, and it looks great! Can I use this in a PBEM if my opponent is using your standard map? It's the same data, no?

2. The symbol for mines at Allied bases is misplaced. The symbol is fine for Japanese bases, but at Allied bases, the asterisk is at the base of the little "anchor" indicating anchored ships; the two overlap. The asterisk needs to be placed above the anchor, as it is for Japanese bases.

3. Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I still can't tell what's an atoll and what's not without checking the base screen. Pagan isn't; Truk is. But they look the same to me on the map. Should I just check the base screen to be sure? Or is there some map symbol I'm missing?

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Andrew, I'm liking the map, and I'm about to start a PBEM with it. But a couple questions:

1. I'm using the standard map, not any of your varying styles. I can't figure out how to toggle between the light-hex version and the no-hex-no-lines version. Hitting F6 toggles the hexsides, which works fine. But what I really want is to be able to toggle off control zones, malaria, and weather zones.

Toggling to the "no hex" version is done the same way as for the official map - it is done by toggling the "Map styles" switch in the "Preferences" menu, then exiting and restarting the game. If this does not work then you may not have the "no hexes" map version loaded, but it comes with my map bundle so you should have it.

2. Actually, what I *most* want is a variant with the light hexes and malaria -- but no "weather" or "control" zones. In a PBEM, I have no use at all for the control zones; and I don't really need the weather. But I do love having the malaria zones outlined. That's pretty eye-opening. E.g., Broome is malarial; Darwin isn't. Batvia is; Palembang isn't. Any chance of a version of the map with light hexes & malaria but no weather zones or control zones?

Funny you should request this - I was recently thinking of making another map variant with weather and malarial zones, but not control zones. I was going to use the WiF style hexes, though, as that is what I prefer using. I was going to use hexside indicators as well.

The trouble with the various options is that everyone wants the map a particular way, and it is time consuming to create the various map variations. If there are enough people who want a particular style I will do it. Quite a few people wanted the no hex map without any zones at all, which is why I added it to the package as the default "no hexes" map.

3. Edit: in the absence of #2 above, I'm going to try alt 4. I'm not quite sure how to install alt 4, but I'll download it and try it.

There should be a little readme in the downloaded zip file which explains how to install the map. Please let me know if it still not clear, though.

Andrew

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I like this map the more I work with it. Great work! I have some quibbles, but on the whole, it's a big improvement. But I have three more questions:

Feel free to quibble away. When it comes to making improvements to the map, I rely on feedback from the users to a large extent.

1. Edit: I installed alt 4, and it looks great! Can I use this in a PBEM if my opponent is using your standard map? It's the same data, no?

Yes, you can use whaever variant of my map you like - the map data is the important bit and it doesn't change when using one of my map alternatives (hmmmm, maybe I should add this one to my map FAQ)

2. The symbol for mines at Allied bases is misplaced. The symbol is fine for Japanese bases, but at Allied bases, the asterisk is at the base of the little "anchor" indicating anchored ships; the two overlap. The asterisk needs to be placed above the anchor, as it is for Japanese bases.

The mine symbols have nothing to do with my map. They are stored in a separate file, and I don't replace it (I have another mod that does, but that is a separate thing). The stock game displays mines the same way.

3. Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I still can't tell what's an atoll and what's not without checking the base screen. Pagan isn't; Truk is. But they look the same to me on the map. Should I just check the base screen to be sure? Or is there some map symbol I'm missing?

I drew blue lines around the coast of all of the atolls, to simulate a coral reef, but it doesn't work very well because it is small, and because for most atolls the base symbol and other symbols obscure the map anyway. Atolls are also drawn in a sandy coloured terrain, as opposed to most other islands which have green jungle terrain. Again the islands are small so this doesn't help much, I guess. For an example of an atoll, look at Green Island, in hex 64,92, and compare it to Buka in the next hex (64,93).

Andrew

[Grotius]

Thanks for all the helpful replies, Andrew. And don't make a new alternate map style just for me; I think I found the one I want in alternate 4. The only thing it lacks is the malaria info, but I pretty much know what's malarial anyway.

Thanks also for the info on mines. It's been so long since I've played the Allies that I didn't realize the stock map also displays Allied mines that way.

My quibbles really are just quibbles. I love the white "northern" mountains, as in China; I find them easier to discern than the "jungle mountains" in places like the Philippines. I guess it would look funny to have whitecaps in the jungle, so I understand why you did it this way.

My main quibble is about railroads. I understand why you put a rail line in central Malaya; there was indeed a rail line there. But Tristanjohn posted a picture and some info suggesting it wasn't used much by the IJA. I wonder if a road might be a good compromise. The real problem is the game rules, which treat ever railroad as if it had unlimited railway cars. Likewise with Darwin: you're right to take out the railroad, but now it will be difficult to supply Darwin overland, as the Allies did historically. Still, I'm intrigued by both changes, which is partly why I wanted to try your map.

Thanks again for a great piece of work. I'm sure I'll think up more comments as our game progresses.

[Grotius]

One other possible thing for your FAQ: be sure that people use the select utility in the WITP folder itself. I had trouble installing the alt map style at first. The first time I tried, I think I may have run the select utility from the wrong folder. The result was that your standard map was still installed. When I re-ran the utility, using the copy of the utility in the WITP main folder, it worked.

[Andrew Brown]

ORIGINAL: Grotius
My main quibble is about railroads. I understand why you put a rail line in central Malaya; there was indeed a rail line there. But Tristanjohn posted a picture and some info suggesting it wasn't used much by the IJA. I wonder if a road might be a good compromise. The real problem is the game rules, which treat ever railroad as if it had unlimited railway cars. Likewise with Darwin: you're right to take out the railroad, but now it will be difficult to supply Darwin overland, as the Allies did historically. Still, I'm intrigued by both changes, which is partly why I wanted to try your map.

I saw the post from Tristanjohn. Actually I already had the map he posted. He made a good point about use of that central railway and I agree with him. I am intending to change this railway to a road in the next map version, as a compromise like you suggest.

As for Darwin. I add a very small amount of intrinsic supply generation to Darwin to help make up for the difficulty in supplying it. I would not like to change the road to a railway unless absolutely necessary.

Thanks again for a great piece of work. I'm sure I'll think up more comments as our game progresses.

Yes, please do.

Andrew

[CapAndGown]

Grotius and I are now 1 week into scenario 115. I just took Linfen with 2 divisions. It had 0 forts. I would suggest that to slow down the japs some, Linfen be given some level of fortification, say at least 3.