Designer OOB Notes

[KG Erwin]

Guys, we're soon going to have a whole new ball game, and we should all be celebrating.
Where's the dancing girls when you need them LOL ? I'll settle for this--

[Goblin]

I fully plan on tipping back one dedicated to Michael.


Goblin

[Riun T]

Got a quick question for ya guys, if I've saved all my battles on a long camp and install this fix will it change the saved games or will I have to reexperience the thrill of opening up a halftrack with a 17lder and watching CHUNKS of squads stagger out of the smoke instead of whole slightly suppressed squads ready to fight from where they were droped????RT

[KG Erwin]

Riun, I'll be starting from square one--a new campaign. The new sighting rules could have some important effects on jungle battles. We will just have to wait and see on how the changes will affect combat--I'm thinking that the infantry will further reassert itself as the primary force in WWII combat, which only confirms what many of us believe.

Without the ground pounder, one can control nothing. Armor may be sexy, and it can advance quickly, but it cannot hold ground without infantry support. This update should reinforce the notion that the proper application of combined arms will win the day.

Leadership means more, and the shifts in the real-life war should play more of a part in this.

The Germans are good--damn good, and it will be hard to beat them until they get whittled down as was the actual case.

The next mech.exe will provide a shot-in-the-arm for the game , and I , like the rest of you, am anxiously awaiting it.

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

You will not have to start over.

Have Fun...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: Riun T

Got a quick question for ya guys, if I've saved all my battles on a long camp and install this fix will it change the saved games or will I have to reexperience the thrill of opening up a halftrack with a 17lder and watching CHUNKS of squads stagger out of the smoke instead of whole slightly suppressed squads ready to fight from where they were droped????RT

[chief]

Mike:

Many thanks for taking time out of a busy schedule and doing this, Danke,


BRAVO ZULU

Ah heck BRAVO ZULUwas not big enough, an edit was in order.

[Riun T]

Gentlemen, , , just stoping in after supper to sniff aroun,and on reading Mikes response came up with another question. Will the casualties also include the troops riding vehicles threw mined areas? and what do u use as the perameters in programing this?? percentage of surface area of the tank ridden divided by # of men riding?? AND do the possiblity of casualties for richochet hits also causing hits and dismount???Or a substantially severe hit !!! like 155mm Arty top hits !!!! may not really hurt the vehicle, BUT makes pudding out of anyone on or at least 20m from the tank??!! OR a large calibre passthrou AT round that explosivly pops the turret, I"M talkin Foreplate to Tailgate " BABY " now look what U've done got me all excited <<RT

[RockinHarry]

Mike, thanks for telling us about some of those data, that only the original programmer could know![:)] May I take the opportunity to ask some about the terrain related data, like those from data section8 (S8) of the scenario *.dat files? The past 3 years I made a couple of assumptions concerning S8 Data Bytes 6 and 8 which are: S8 Byte 6 gives the "concealment" value of a given Hex and S8 Byte 8 handles Line of sight blocking of a terrain type. Can you tell how those data Bytes are used in the game in detail? My assumptions are based on those from Fred Chlanda who already investigated in that data much earlier.

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

Sorry, but that would be propriatary information.

Bye...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

Mike, thanks for telling us about some of those data, that only the original programmer could know![:)] May I take the opportunity to ask some about the terrain related data, like those from data section8 (S8) of the scenario *.dat files? The past 3 years I made a couple of assumptions concerning S8 Data Bytes 6 and 8 which are: S8 Byte 6 gives the "concealment" value of a given Hex and S8 Byte 8 handles Line of sight blocking of a terrain type. Can you tell how those data Bytes are used in the game in detail? My assumptions are based on those from Fred Chlanda who already investigated in that data much earlier.

[Orzel Bialy]

Mike,

I'm going to jump back to your original post for a second.

In terms of FC values you have 0-4 listed, yet in the v8.3 OoB's there are units with values of 5 and higher. Is this part of the area where people weren't listening to you and is it safe to assume that these higher values are not being recognized by the game engine? [&:] (perhaps auto-defaulting to 4?)

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

I don't know why the OOB authors have done what they have done. I have not been working with any of them since I did the German, USA and Soviets for OOB version 1.0 alpha, as examples.

I am sure they did the best they could. No one, except the programmer can actually know the full effects of the values in the OOB. They have added many new units and fine formations.

Bye...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy

Mike,

I'm going to jump back to your original post for a second.

In terms of FC values you have 0-4 listed, yet in the v8.3 OoB's there are units with values of 5 and higher. Is this part of the area where people weren't listening to you and is it safe to assume that these higher values are not being recognized by the game engine? [&:] (perhaps auto-defaulting to 4?)

[Major Destruction]

Hi Mike,

Maybe you remember speaking with me on the telephone when I was charged with editing the v6 OOB's when you told me to edit the vehicle sizes so that "any vehicle that a man standing next to it can see over such as a jeep" would be size 0 ........then somebody changed that in code "because it caused problems". A good many hours wasted.

Or to make all platoon HQ units 6 men in strength because "anything smaller than that would be too easily destroyed" and then somebody edited the code so that only units with 4 men or less would have size zero. A good many units wrongly created.

There are many code issues that can be corrected such as for example, unit classes that can drive over bocage or stone walls or hedges with no damage. Nothing should be able to drive over bocage (except perhaps tanks with a huge expenditure of movement points ) and stone walls should not be driven over by anything wheeled at least.

Or the tendency of amphib vehicles to drive through buildings at any opportunity.

Or the inability of certain unit classes to opfire at certain other unit classes. Motorcycles are a prime example of units that attract no opfire.

Motorcycle, bicycle and ski infantry (to a lessor extent) are poor unit classes. Any code edits that can be made to make these classes work properly would be well received.

How about the hard coding of the 81 mm mortars to give them better performance than the 3 inch mortars? or for that matter the performance of the US half inch MG to be better than that of the Russian 12.7?

It is nice to see you crawl out of the woodwork to make these fine pronouncements but it is an insult to everyone who has slaved over the OOB edits since version 1.0 to here you say that you have had no involvement in the development of the OOB's since then.

[Wild Bill]

Ah, the infamous, "Hello," and "bye" that I've come to know over the years has reappeared!

Well, well, my good friend and colleague Michael Wood. What a pleasant surprise! How wonderful to have your expertise involved in some corrections and improvements!

I'll be looking over this piece of work and seeing how it improves or changes the game.

I wish I had known about this sooner. I would have asked for something. Remember how I used to drive you even more insane asking for stuff through the versions we did?

I remember when I asked for parachutes for the paratroopers and the thrill I got when you put that into the game. That is just one of many great improvements you have made in this fine piece of work. I'll always be very grateful to you. I even miss the "dogfights" we used to have over the phone.

And the hours you put in without stopping, sometimes 3 days and nights in a row, working, working, working. Not many folks know how you sacrificed sleep, food and other "luxuries" of life, caught up in the heat of creating.

My last request would have been to have a way to make units withdraw (disappear) from the map on a certain turn set by the scenario designer. That could have been a great tool if used properly, as units were pulled from the line and disappeared from the action.

BUT...it would have been nice.

Let me add my deepest thanks to Michael Wood who for years went above and beyond and without whose help I would have NEVER been able to do one of the three Mega-Campaigns I worked on for MATRIX. I'm grateful to you. You are a real celebrity around these parts, my wargaming friend!

WB

[Fradar]

I have used a trick to make units appear and disappear during a battle, units like partisans and commandos, in different scenarios;
I used the same hex as reinforcement and exit hex. It works well. You can have units appearing and disappearing several times on the same hex.So as not to unbalance the game you can set the units at 0 cost the first time they appear.

[RockinHarry]

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

Sorry, but that would be propriatary information.

Bye...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

Mike, thanks for telling us about some of those data, that only the original programmer could know![:)] May I take the opportunity to ask some about the terrain related data, like those from data section8 (S8) of the scenario *.dat files? The past 3 years I made a couple of assumptions concerning S8 Data Bytes 6 and 8 which are: S8 Byte 6 gives the "concealment" value of a given Hex and S8 Byte 8 handles Line of sight blocking of a terrain type. Can you tell how those data Bytes are used in the game in detail? My assumptions are based on those from Fred Chlanda who already investigated in that data much earlier.

Ok. Sorry for bothering.[;)]

[Wild Bill]

Sounds interesting Fradar. I'd like to know more about this one, making units appear and disappear. Is this with AI units? Once they appear as reinforcements, do they move off the nex on their own or turn right around and retreat? Since you only have one exit hex, do you displace it in the middle of the map or must it remain on the edge?

WB

[Alby]

Alot of things he has addressed in the Mech.exe patch are things that have bugged me for a long time.
even simple things like in a long campiagn in late war, being the germans and havving an assualt mission!
Thanks Mike!!! [:D]

[Fradar]

I did it with the AI, but I guess it will work just the same if it is the human player.
I used several reinforcement + exit hexes at different locations. The units will stay where they are, if you use the defense stance. They will only move if forced to retreat. It works fine. You can check my scenario "Elusive Partisans" at the SPWaW Depot's Fradar's showcase under "8 scenarios to illustrate D.Lehmann's posts about french troops".
I also used the trick with US Rangers just to trick the human player. Rangers being good at infiltrating, I made them appear later somewhere closer to the german camp.
It is a good way to catch the human player by surprise. A patrol discovers in the distance a large party and soon after it is gone without leaving any trace. It's really fun. And then they attack you where you do not expect them. I will try to dig out this scenario called "Preparing a bivouac".
This can be used to simulate defenders withdrawing from combat on the front line to better counterattack later on.
Hope you enjoy Sir.

[Alby]

Hello...

I wish I could have mentioned the AT rifles using the MG graphic when they fire (looks like multiple shots) instead of the say...at gun graphic (single shot look)

Also the infrantry icon problems in the long campaign...
the opposing infrantry either seems to start off tan or turn tan after they take casualties...
no matter where you are actually fighting.

[Alby]

whats the latest news???[&:]