did this change? land mvmnt rule???

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Zeta16

Here is what happened on my end. I had my troops in Canton and they were on the move to one of the other bases down the coast when at 45 miles they were stop by one small unit from going into the the next hex. I tried to attack that hex but he land troops in the hex from the PI, about 80 divisions. So we had a battle there and I withdrawed my troops there to the base in the next hex. He followed me there and on my screen the hex became empty so I ordered my troops to march to another Japanese held city so they moved out.

I am still unclear. Were there enemy troops in your hex when you ordered the move to the "clear" hex? Were troops there when the move actually took place (ie - maybe this is a timing thing - enemy troops showed up after the move was ordered, but before the move took place?)

[freeboy]

OK, MY COMPLETE BAD FOR LACK OF MAKINGHTIS CLEAR>>>
[&o]

I surronded Canton wiht units, he is in Canto, I also have units in Canton I am nmoving units from the hex just to the right of canton into canton.. the hex becomes empty, at which time z's forces slinshot out of canton.. I at the same time get a new unit into this hex.. he then moves to cultivated hex next to Swatow, but now may be stuck there as I again am surrounding him.. this time he dies!!!!!

Swatow fell during this time frame

[pad152]

If one of your units guarding a ZOC hex is very small or bunch of construction engineers, then I don't have a problem with retreating units move into their hex without surrendering. I like a little randomness in combat results and would hate to go back to board game type rules where X always beats Y with a dice roll greater then 2.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

OK, MY COMPLETE BAD FOR LACK OF MAKINGHTIS CLEAR>>>
[&o]

I surronded Canton wiht units, he is in Canto, I also have units in Canton I am nmoving units from the hex just to the right of canton into canton.. the hex becomes empty, at which time z's forces slinshot out of canton.. I at the same time get a new unit into this hex.. he then moves to cultivated hex next to Swatow, but now may be stuck there as I again am surrounding him.. this time he dies!!!!!

Swatow fell during this time frame

OK - Japanese unit surrounded in Canton. Allied units also in Canton. Allied units surround Canton including hex directly to the east of Canton (call this hex A).

I *assume* there are no Japanese in hex A with the Allied unit as when the Allies vacate it, it becomes empty. (Let me know if this is wrong).

Japanese move from Canton to east (into hex A), at the same time Allied units move from hex A west into Canton and other Allied units move (from elsewhere) into hex A.

If i understand this, then he should be moving from one allied ZOC to another (not supposed to matter if the ZOC is disputed. This is NOT supposed to happen.

Of course, if i am mistinterpreting what you said let me know.

[Zeta16]

I saw the hex open with nothing in it for a turn so I set my troops to move to another base and they moved out 2 turns later. They never should have got stuck there in the first place as I was one turn away from moving down the road with 400000 troops when 1 unit blocked it as his units from the North entered Canton the samr turn. So I could not move out and my troops from Swatow got to the block hex right when he started to land troops there from the sea. So maybe I should not have been able to move out of the hex, but there is no way 400000 troops should be blocked by one unit.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Zeta16

I saw the hex open with nothing in it for a turn so I set my troops to move to another base and they moved out 2 turns later. They never should have got stuck there in the first place as I was one turn away from moving down the road with 400000 troops when 1 unit blocked it as his units from the North entered Canton the samr turn. So I could not move out and my troops from Swatow got to the block hex right when he started to land troops there from the sea. So maybe I should not have been able to move out of the hex, but there is no way 400000 troops should be blocked by one unit.

Except by the rules, of course. See the thread i referenced. 400,000 troops can be blocked by NO units at all - just the ZOC.

edit - i did not like this rule when it came out, but it was the rule. If they changed the rule, it would be nice to know.

[rtrapasso]

According to the patch notes - they did fiddle with the ZOC movement, but it was supposed to prevent this sort of thing (but with AI).

[freeboy]

which patch? I didn't see that in 1.5??

[rtrapasso]

Yeah - its in there:

29) Under some circumstances, zones of control were not inhibiting computer controlled land unit movement. Fixed.

Not sure what they were referring to - but it sounds like the ZOC were not stopping AI from moving troops by the rules.

[freeboy]

ok, I guess you do not controll a hex per movement iunless a unit actually is in the hex, and units my leap over one another.. if passing in oppisate directions.. that is my all time wow...

there is no way 400000 troops should be blocked by one unit.

from Zeta16

I guess we know Z's favorite land movement/combat issue.. I agree that 400k to ? next to nothing is silly.. there should be a total number check to "violate" the rule in WITP2

[Zeta16]

The thing that really pissed me off was all my units in canton where at 59 when the unit got there. I was trying to move down the coast to defend and give all of the bases some troops and leave canton to the chinese. Really I have no clue what ZOC are as I have never used any keyboard key ever during a game from uv to witp.

[freeboy]

Yep, looks like there are no Zones of control.. exceipt for SUPPLY.. I really acan understand Z being pissed off.. I saw the troops on the fly, one reason I landed my troops behing them to slow down there excape.. he has taken the emprerial gaurds unit several thousand miles all the way from MAndaly area..
sounds like a song..

[Zeta16]

My troops have been on the move since late 43. A long march they have had.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ok, I guess you do not controll a hex per movement iunless a unit actually is in the hex, and units my leap over one another.. if passing in oppisate directions.. that is my all time wow...

there is no way 400000 troops should be blocked by one unit.

from Zeta16

I guess we know Z's favorite land movement/combat issue.. I agree that 400k to ? next to nothing is silly.. there should be a total number check to "violate" the rule in WITP2

I am not advocating the rule - but if there is a rule, the game should enforce it. Many people advocated what you say - but we were told "No, this is the way it is".

You do NOT have to be in a hex to control it - that is what the ZOCs are all about.

I don't know what to make of all this. Nobody else seems to be bothered by this, i guess.

[Mr.Frag]

rt, without seeing the turn by turn action and effects, it is very difficult to comment on what actually happened.

[Zeta16]

It was real quick. I was try to get them out of there for a long time. Once I saw the chance I jumped. I have always thought to stop a force from moving into a hex you needed troops in it. I have never been intrested in land warfare so I have never looked.

[Mr.Frag]

Thats why I need to see it ... you can't Retreat into a enemy Zoc even if empty, that doesn't mena you can't move into an empty enemy ZoC. As long as you can trace supply, you can move. As it sounds like this location was 1 hex from a friendly supply source, it would be able to trace the path.

[rtrapasso]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Thats why I need to see it ... you can't Retreat into a enemy Zoc even if empty, that doesn't mena you can't move into an empty enemy ZoC. As long as you can trace supply, you can move. As it sounds like this location was 1 hex from a friendly supply source, it would be able to trace the path.

But i thought the game specifically prohibited moving directly from one enemy ZOC directly to another.

Ie - if we have hexes :

---1----2----
3----4-----5
---6----7

If we have unit distribution:

---A----A---
N---AJ----A
---A--A---

where A= Allied, J = Japan, N = no ZOC

Then could the Japanese unit in hex 4 move DIRECTLY to hex 6?

My understanding is that the Japanese unit could not move DIRECTLY there, but could move to hex 3 then hex 6.

Am i mistaken?[&:]

[Mr.Frag]

It would if the supply could not be traced, it is all about the supply path.

[freeboy]

ok, Z moved into a hex that was ocupied previously by me.. .. I then moved into Canton on the one side and toward Sawtow on the other.. I held the hex .. a w key would show a "a".. Z was able to move into this hex from Canton, which was disputed... ie we both had troops, he controlled the base...

I guess it was not supposed to be a situation like this... if supply is the criteria.. would moving into an empty "zoned" allied hex from Canton be allowed? I can give you exact hex numbers if you want... let me know.. we are only interested in the rule.. this game has far passed the point where we are looking to do much more than crush our opponents and end it!

BOMBS AWAY B29 FANBOY