Ammo Sgt your a year old in this forum. I see that you registered in Oct 2000. Happy birthday.
I hit my 1,000th post recently and did not even realize it, I must have dozed off. So party while you are still young. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
An idea....a new look for SPWaW
Moderator: MOD_SPWaW
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Larry Holt
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 10:00 am
- Location: Atlanta, GA 30068
Some of my thoghts after I've read the responses above:
1. If you have single soldiers, the 3D view is great. You can see the soldier move its legs, arms, smile, smoke a cigarette, tie up his laces. When he gets hurt, there may even appear a cut on his body (obviously only on fast, powerful PCs). When you change the weapon the soldier is using, you can see him get it in his rucksack and take out another one, which looks totally different (!!!), has got a longer barrel with dark, beautifully rendered sight, and a lovely trigger. Obviously such useful details can't be represented in old 2D wargames.
2. On the other hand, there are a number of great 3D wargames such as Suddent Strike or the new 3D Panzer General series. Let's take the latter. There are wonderfully rendered units there. Everything is just beautiful. When your tank unit is shooting you can actually see it move its turret, and fire is getting out of the barrels when the units are fighting (!!!). The fact that you can't really know the size of the units (a brigade, a division?) is less important. What counts is a magnificently rendered image of a truck or tank with caterpillar tracks that are actually moving and smoke getting out of the exhaust pipes (!!!). And, oh my God!, by pushing keys on your keybord you can really zoom in or out. Why, that IS something! It really wasn't like this in the past. Those boring, old 2D wargames! Supply is not really modelled in this game, except for the simplest situations where your units are surrounded. But that doesn't matter. Instead you can be enchanted by your planes actually nose-diving. The fact that you don't know what size your air unit is doesn't matter. And (this one is my favourite) you have beautiful units at your disposal. They're just wonderful and so lovely. And you can buy (yes b-u-y) a new unit just like that. Click... and you've got a tank unit consisting entirely of, say, Pz II tanks or Tiger tanks, or a single type of artillery, or a single type of recon vehicle. And so on and so forth...
m200
[ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: m200 ]
[ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: m200 ]</p>
1. If you have single soldiers, the 3D view is great. You can see the soldier move its legs, arms, smile, smoke a cigarette, tie up his laces. When he gets hurt, there may even appear a cut on his body (obviously only on fast, powerful PCs). When you change the weapon the soldier is using, you can see him get it in his rucksack and take out another one, which looks totally different (!!!), has got a longer barrel with dark, beautifully rendered sight, and a lovely trigger. Obviously such useful details can't be represented in old 2D wargames.
2. On the other hand, there are a number of great 3D wargames such as Suddent Strike or the new 3D Panzer General series. Let's take the latter. There are wonderfully rendered units there. Everything is just beautiful. When your tank unit is shooting you can actually see it move its turret, and fire is getting out of the barrels when the units are fighting (!!!). The fact that you can't really know the size of the units (a brigade, a division?) is less important. What counts is a magnificently rendered image of a truck or tank with caterpillar tracks that are actually moving and smoke getting out of the exhaust pipes (!!!). And, oh my God!, by pushing keys on your keybord you can really zoom in or out. Why, that IS something! It really wasn't like this in the past. Those boring, old 2D wargames! Supply is not really modelled in this game, except for the simplest situations where your units are surrounded. But that doesn't matter. Instead you can be enchanted by your planes actually nose-diving. The fact that you don't know what size your air unit is doesn't matter. And (this one is my favourite) you have beautiful units at your disposal. They're just wonderful and so lovely. And you can buy (yes b-u-y) a new unit just like that. Click... and you've got a tank unit consisting entirely of, say, Pz II tanks or Tiger tanks, or a single type of artillery, or a single type of recon vehicle. And so on and so forth...
m200
[ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: m200 ]
[ October 06, 2001: Message edited by: m200 ]</p>
Please don't!
Not everybody loves 3D and as was pointed out on the first message there is already an option in the Talonsoft series. Steel Panthers is and always has been about simulating combat - as accurately as possible. Now people want to turn it into a prettier game.
It would run slower (rendering large battles impossible or at least impracticable) and would be more confusing. I love it as it already is!
Please don't ruin my favourite game in the cause of eye candy.
Not everybody loves 3D and as was pointed out on the first message there is already an option in the Talonsoft series. Steel Panthers is and always has been about simulating combat - as accurately as possible. Now people want to turn it into a prettier game.
It would run slower (rendering large battles impossible or at least impracticable) and would be more confusing. I love it as it already is!
Please don't ruin my favourite game in the cause of eye candy.
To m200 : Yes I saw PAnzer General 3D..I also bought it..(that's to say they SELL and we PAY for HOPE..) but never played more than few times..I can't forget aircrafts suspended in the air over the battlefield and it seemed more a kite than an a plane )(only MAtrix could recycle that idea in a proper way..I am sure now ..)
Now I always ask myself..why these guys can't understand that their marvellous games lack of deepness ? HOW MUCH RESOURCES WASTED Sudden strike and Panzer 3D !! If only they had a bit of what SPWAW has ...they could be the MOST AND ONLY MASTER wargames...realizing that I can see further how much SPWAW can highen itself to the hall of best wargames of ever..
General Vasey can stay quite..the concept of a button which allows you to switch mode 3D or back to 2D (and so no slowly play) is a simple concept that already exists and can be kept for compatibility with the past..no efforts required to reverse to the old well-known 2D SPWAW(CL)..
but for upgrading Combat LEader to a great piece of purchasers only a 3D like Sudden strike or Panzer 3D is neede to defeat concurrency...and to win the secret is keeping SPWAW as a basic concept of playing
This is not my opinion...this is a matter of fact..as for now MAtrix is growing up...we can say they are doing all the steps to become a great software house..they are doing superbly well...and it's only a question of time as they will do that revolution..they grew up a great resource renewing SP1..and we 'paid' them because they did very well..this is the secret..do things that make people happy ...and I am sure they can't let this big opportunity fly away..we have only to hope they will always mantain lowalty and respect to tradition..and with SO MANY IMPROVEMENTS they gave to SPWAW since SP....no one of us can say they were wrong !
.. SO WE CAN TRUST THEM !!
GOOD LUCK BOYS..
I am wondering if you are realizing you can fly !
Now I always ask myself..why these guys can't understand that their marvellous games lack of deepness ? HOW MUCH RESOURCES WASTED Sudden strike and Panzer 3D !! If only they had a bit of what SPWAW has ...they could be the MOST AND ONLY MASTER wargames...realizing that I can see further how much SPWAW can highen itself to the hall of best wargames of ever..
General Vasey can stay quite..the concept of a button which allows you to switch mode 3D or back to 2D (and so no slowly play) is a simple concept that already exists and can be kept for compatibility with the past..no efforts required to reverse to the old well-known 2D SPWAW(CL)..
but for upgrading Combat LEader to a great piece of purchasers only a 3D like Sudden strike or Panzer 3D is neede to defeat concurrency...and to win the secret is keeping SPWAW as a basic concept of playing
This is not my opinion...this is a matter of fact..as for now MAtrix is growing up...we can say they are doing all the steps to become a great software house..they are doing superbly well...and it's only a question of time as they will do that revolution..they grew up a great resource renewing SP1..and we 'paid' them because they did very well..this is the secret..do things that make people happy ...and I am sure they can't let this big opportunity fly away..we have only to hope they will always mantain lowalty and respect to tradition..and with SO MANY IMPROVEMENTS they gave to SPWAW since SP....no one of us can say they were wrong !
.. SO WE CAN TRUST THEM !!
GOOD LUCK BOYS..
I am wondering if you are realizing you can fly !
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!
Ok lets try and get some facts ... this is not strictly about being pretty ...what are the current project Computer requirements for the CL series? ...yes, remember it will be a series of games, that will slowly build to the variety of units and nations and theaters and years already available in SPWAW ...what is the current projected time line for the development of the CL series up to the current variety of options available in SPWAW ? ..and lastly what will be the timeline if 3D is pursued and what will be the computer requirements if 3D is implemented ?...OK, and just in case, one more question what trade-offs (if any) will be needed in detail and accuracy and military simulation will be needed to keep the CL series marketable to a large base of machines if 3D is incorporated ?
I mean we can base this strictly on emotional issues , or we can get the facts, and see if the trade-offs on other game features , development time, and marketable computer base are truely worth the effort to make CL a 3D game ...
I mean we can base this strictly on emotional issues , or we can get the facts, and see if the trade-offs on other game features , development time, and marketable computer base are truely worth the effort to make CL a 3D game ...
"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which
uhm...I don't know how to explain myself..AmmoSgt..you are talking about the facts..
and I obviously agree with you when you say that there is a sort of precedence-rule in doing the work...do you really think I am talking about giving privilige to 3D and loose deepness ?
Sorry that wasn't my aim ! It seems many of you have trouble in recognizing the levels in what may a trade-off for a wargame ( I think you mean about the selling of copies when you say "trade-off") (sorry for my bad english..)
A first level is for few collectors and one more is for the masses...that's when a great game is also conceived for the masses..it's not anymore a question of money for the sofwtare house..they become BENEFACTORS!
Now I can't believe that a 3D may be today a limitation for selling a game..it's true the contrary..look around !
On the contrary always purchasers are betrayed by good graphics but low complexity...now SPWAW has a jolly..very long playability..but no 3D...
Is it so difficult to realize that this will always be a great limitation for the masses ?
Now I understand that this will require time..of course !! Am I talking about first version of CL with 3D ? I would be a fool thinking in these therms..
and I never spoke of a first point of view 3D SPWAW ! I am rather referring to SPWAW exactly like it is now..but using an isometric 3D view...like Suddenstrike..or like Civilization 2..
with little more animations...
I am instead speaking for the future evolution of CL...the way is known..be prepared for the future I say..for the work is long ..and so it needs a long thinking..
Then I have to add that my point is not a question of uncontrolled emotion...I am still playing SPWAW 2D with a lot of passion..I am talking about 3D only because I care about Matrix and I think they may earn a lot of money if they transport this game to the masses...I wouldn't cause any danger to SPWAW if I saw SP1 ruined by Matrix's enhancements...but they gave me and you a sequel to SP1 which is outstanding..
SP->SPWAW->CL are steps of a new road..where a trademark built things with a soul and judgement..do you know you are at step one and you just want to stop it ? but I don't think you will fight the progress because I don't think you play SP1 anymore..(It tells you one that played SP1 beyond the death of DOS keeping its 486 alive dedicated to SP !!!)
why stopping the progress ?
Never stop to think big..especially if they are doing so well...
Untill we keep the SPWAW project small , only few will enjoy it !
and I obviously agree with you when you say that there is a sort of precedence-rule in doing the work...do you really think I am talking about giving privilige to 3D and loose deepness ?
Sorry that wasn't my aim ! It seems many of you have trouble in recognizing the levels in what may a trade-off for a wargame ( I think you mean about the selling of copies when you say "trade-off") (sorry for my bad english..)
A first level is for few collectors and one more is for the masses...that's when a great game is also conceived for the masses..it's not anymore a question of money for the sofwtare house..they become BENEFACTORS!
Now I can't believe that a 3D may be today a limitation for selling a game..it's true the contrary..look around !
On the contrary always purchasers are betrayed by good graphics but low complexity...now SPWAW has a jolly..very long playability..but no 3D...
Is it so difficult to realize that this will always be a great limitation for the masses ?
Now I understand that this will require time..of course !! Am I talking about first version of CL with 3D ? I would be a fool thinking in these therms..
and I never spoke of a first point of view 3D SPWAW ! I am rather referring to SPWAW exactly like it is now..but using an isometric 3D view...like Suddenstrike..or like Civilization 2..
with little more animations...
I am instead speaking for the future evolution of CL...the way is known..be prepared for the future I say..for the work is long ..and so it needs a long thinking..
Then I have to add that my point is not a question of uncontrolled emotion...I am still playing SPWAW 2D with a lot of passion..I am talking about 3D only because I care about Matrix and I think they may earn a lot of money if they transport this game to the masses...I wouldn't cause any danger to SPWAW if I saw SP1 ruined by Matrix's enhancements...but they gave me and you a sequel to SP1 which is outstanding..
SP->SPWAW->CL are steps of a new road..where a trademark built things with a soul and judgement..do you know you are at step one and you just want to stop it ? but I don't think you will fight the progress because I don't think you play SP1 anymore..(It tells you one that played SP1 beyond the death of DOS keeping its 486 alive dedicated to SP !!!)
why stopping the progress ?
Never stop to think big..especially if they are doing so well...
Untill we keep the SPWAW project small , only few will enjoy it !
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!
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Gen.Hoepner
- Posts: 3636
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 8:00 am
- Location: italy
Ruxius,I really think that Matrix is considering all these options:buisness is buisness,and passion is passion too!!I think the Mega Campaign project has signed a big step in opening this great game to the purchasing masses(the ones who pay for what they got!!!).The only point of discussion is <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> oes Matrix has the structure ,financial and industrial,to develop in the medium term a SPWAW in 3D?I hope the money they started earning from MC will help Matrix in this way.
What we can do is keep supporting Matrix.
Regards <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
What we can do is keep supporting Matrix.
Regards <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Originally posted by Gen.Hoepner:
Ruxius,I really think that Matrix is considering all these options:buisness is buisness,and passion is passion too!!I think the Mega Campaign project has signed a big step in opening this great game to the purchasing masses(the ones who pay for what they got!!!).The only point of discussion is <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> oes Matrix has the structure ,financial and industrial,to develop in the medium term a SPWAW in 3D?I hope the money they started earning from MC will help Matrix in this way.
What we can do is keep supporting Matrix.
Regards <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
YEAH !
Finally now I feel the point is heading towards the right edge !
No adversing 3D ....only a patient wait for it !
and let me say what a wise long range strategy till now !
SPWAW1.0 ->MEGACD ->COMBAT LEADER -> who knows?
In the meanwhile what a fun Ruxius !!!
I enjoy SPWAW !
Italian Soldier,German Discipline!