What do you want to see in WITP II?

[witpqs]

I like the game, warts and all. Yes, I wish it were better in certain areas, much better in some areas (like the interface and easing play effort through data management, etc.).

With regard to entrenchment of code, it seems clear that much of the code was a hold-over from long ago. The real deal for what we collectively want (barring minor differences of opinion) is to start from scratch. Certain algorithms and concepts would be useful, but the design, data elements, and code would be best begun from scratch.

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, obviously. 10+ years of God only knows how tangled spaghetti code is not conductive to making new games. Clean slate, and that's unlikely, at best, considering how monstrous a task a second WitP would be.

Maybe 2b3 should quote the total number of pages of "code" that make up WitP. Might temper some harsh judgements. Will never forget Zoomie1980's sweeping proclamations over what was wrong here or there or on how easy it would be to fix this change that.

[DuckofTindalos]

Tens of thousands of lines of code... with plenty of 'em performing no function whatsoever. God, I hate coding...[:@]

[Nikademus]

Yes....love computers, but i found in high school i didn't have the knack for programming. I can only admire someone of the caliber of MikeW, Kieth Bros or Gary Grigsby who can turn 'code' into something that looks and feels like a wargame.

[moses]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

are you saying the detail level is too fine? Don know about that. After having played Carrier Force (8bit SSI), i just couldn't get into SSG's "Carriers at War" despite some design advantages that it had (and allegedly a killer AI) I hated the fact that the planes were represented in squadrons and you only got squadron level combat reports. I loved how CF detailed the combat down the individual plane.

Yes. Covering half the earth at squad level cannot be done to the level of accuracy demanded by the average Grognard. The developers can work the next 20 years but in version 6.0b of WITP 4, people will still be saying that this or that major aspect of the game is crap.

[Nikademus]

you might be right....but Gary's done his damage though...i dont think i could ever settle for a pacwar game that doen't resolve the combat down to the current detail level. Its true though that wargames devoted to a specific battle will always have an advantage since they can focus exclusively on the variables that impacted that specific battle. I've heard very good things about the Decisive battles series (i think thats what it was called....games like Korsan pocket)

And yes....no matter what, there will always be people who will be unhappy with this or that....its the nature of the beast in wargaming. Matrix/2b3 took the hard road in opening up their design process/feedback to the degree that they did. Other wargame companies will post forums but will have little to do with it nor will the discussions there impact much.

[DuckofTindalos]

Concur. I'm amazed sometimes that these forums even stay open with some of the cr*p that gets flung around in here.[8|]

[trojan58]

Getting back to the original question.
I would love to be able to specify a aircrafts weapon loadout by mission.

ie bombs for land attack
torpedoes (if carried) for naval attack.
rockets and small bombs for sweep.

that sort of thing

[moses]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

you might be right....but Gary's done his damage though...i dont think i could ever settle for a pacwar game that doen't resolve the combat down to the current detail level. Its true though that wargames devoted to a specific battle will always have an advantage since they can focus exclusively on the variables that impacted that specific battle. I've heard very good things about the Decisive battles series (i think thats what it was called....games like Korsan pocket)

And yes....no matter what, there will always be people who will be unhappy with this or that....its the nature of the beast in wargaming. Matrix/2b3 took the hard road in opening up their design process/feedback to the degree that they did. Other wargame companies will post forums but will have little to do with it nor will the discussions there impact much.

Yes, but with Korsan Pocket its harder to argue because so many things are abstracted that everyone accepts that its just a game. In WITP, with every squad and plane open to inspection, and a thousand turns to exploit any inacuracy or flaw.....

[mdiehl]

I'd like to see a WW2 sim in which Axis logistical capability and sealift capacity represents something like that which was actually available.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

I'd like to see a WW2 sim in which Axis logistical capability and sealift capacity represents something like that which was actually available.

WOW mdiehl! How ya been?

Yeah, would be nice to have some historical accuracy in a wargame for a change.

To Nik. Yeah, Mike Wood is great, I'm not knocking him at all. Sterling effort. This was a what would we like to see thread and I said it. [;)] No need to circle the wagons.

[Gen.Hoepner]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

well if there is one....GG wont be doing it. I think he meant what he said when he said he would never attempt such a large scale project again. Course anyone can change their mind but given the trial that WitP represents, I doubt it.

Excuse but WIR2 won't be a monster? You're killing my dreams[:(]

[Captain Cruft]

Making a WitP II would not be that hard, provided the (IMHO pointless) AI is omitted. Oznoyng looks like he is going to have a go at it for one, as posted in a recent thread.

Apparently about 90% of the coding effort in WitP was directed at the AI, according to the Wargamer interview with 2by3 some time ago.

[Nikademus]

you mean War in the East? well.....ok its the largest land campaign of the war...but it's still only 1 theater. WitP covered an entire war involving multiple theaters and more than 1 nation's armed forces.

Like i said, who knows, maybe Gary will change his mind but i wouldn't expect anything anytime soon. Course there's always that Polish based game thats being developed [:D]

[Nikademus]

lol.....i'm not "circling the wagons", only setting the record straight. You dont seem to realize how cutting your remarks can be at times.

[mdiehl]

WOW mdiehl! How ya been?

Doing well. Been playing UV against the AI when time permits and some ftf board games (like A3R and AWAW). Not much time with kids n all. Mostly trying to spend more time outdoors though, it being autumn when a hunter's fancy turns to the woods.

[madmickey]

Realistic logistic, naval resupply, naval bombardment, limit on units in a hex, choice of a particular naval target, better land combat, better surface combat and many more.

[Brady]

Want's:

1) No AI

2) Smaller Hex scale (Half what we have now)

3) Compleat OOB*

4) larger Map, Includes African Coast and Madagascar, Panama Canal.

5) More deatield suply system, Crtical Items Like Torpedoes, Large ordance Avation fuel, exc acounted for.

6) Adational Land Units, Medical, Training, Suport trops for special Boats, landing craft excetra, Un Armed Working Labor units, Wheather units,Code breaking signals intercept, Vetenary,USO,Brothels, as well, to name a few.

7) Lighter than Air....(I am not Blimp Boy,[:)])

8) Baloon Bombs

9) Ordance load out options for planes, playes can select load out, linked to suply of specialaised ordance types.

10) More detailed Land combat.

11) More detailed resource requirments for Japan, Coal, and other resources realistiacal acounded for and required, Includes food stuffs,and alows for compleat Merchant Marine represenation and effort made to represent all types of ships, throught the war.

12)No hard codding of options Like Zero Bonious, or Allied Heavy bomb boniuos without a switch to turn the darn thing off, same for the carrier react rule.

13) Russian Fleat added

14) Reworked Intell system, present model gives allied players more than it should at times.

15) Radar represented in beter detail, Including Aircraft types, for Surface search, MAD equipment, exc..

16) Did I Mention NO AI[:)]

These are just a few things off the top of my head, I would pay $100 bucks for a game like this without batting an eye, basicaly a more detailed WiTP, even Biger is scope scale and it's addicative potential.

..........

* Includes some things I mentioned above but generaly speaking, if it was left out of WiTP put it in the game, planes like the Alabacore, Ansion, Sea FoX, Rex, Paul, P47N, exct, Midget's, Allied and Japanese (axis) Armend merchants, Miniour countries troops Like Portigual, Tialand, ect...Better Bomb types, intened to include them all not just vanalia represenations of a few types for all countries. CBN weapons. Kaitens, sucide boats, if it was their put it in the game.

[Ron Saueracker]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

lol.....i'm not "circling the wagons", only setting the record straight. You dont seem to realize how cutting your remarks can be at times.

Apologies for any cutting remarks that may have come across as such. I don't use emoticons very well! LOL Perhaps my mood is coming across. (getting frustrated with business BS....can't wait until it's sorted out and I can blow on out of this PC puff town and country for that matter.[;)]

Seriousy, as one can see with the CHS, had many of those folks been utilized early on, along with the original group, I would bet the product would be kickass. Starting from scratch with no holdovers and hangups would probably do the topic a world of good. Needs much design work before any lines of code are even written, however. Huge job even with all the research done and lessons learned (mistakes repeated in many cases) with UV/WITP.

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: moses
Yes. Covering half the earth at squad level cannot be done to the level of accuracy demanded by the average Grognard. The developers can work the next 20 years but in version 6.0b of WITP 4, people will still be saying that this or that major aspect of the game is crap.

The people should join the Army then... Might be easier to start a real war in the real world than to satisfy the average grognard [:D].