Puresim versus OOTP

[Amaroq]

And in the future please spare us all the condescension.

I'm sorry you felt that I was condescending - I didn't intend to imply a negative, 'holier than', or otherwise superior tone.

I felt that you had asked 'what is your perspective, and why do you say this?' to my earlier post, so I posted what I thought was the proper response: I gave my background to explain my biases, described why my personal experiences gave me the impression that I had expressed, and then offered supporting articles by a neutral third party.

Again, I apologize for any offense taken - and am willing to leave it at that if you are content.


Erik, I hope that I was (and am still) keeping the tone civil, but would not mind seeing this thread locked if you will.

Shaun, thanks for the vote of confidence - it means a lot. [:)]

[Steely Glint]

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

Steely I really value your feedback from the OOTP side of things. I think OOTP is a great game, and I respect the heck out of Markus. There is room for both games on everyone's hard drive.

OOTP is a great game, Markus is a very talented designer (he was a young man who reached for the stars and somehow managed to pull some of them down), and anyone who likes computer baseball should own both PureSim and OOTP - especially because both of them are going to get better as time goes by.

[ChrisJohnson]

Yea, that's what I don't understand. Why is it an either one or the other situation [:)]? To be honest, there was a time when the gap between PureSim and OOTP was very large, but those days are over, especially for solo players. Hopefully PureSim 2006 will close it even further. I am always in favor of supporting career baseball game developers, so I highly endorse owning both games. Heck, the combined price of both is less than one console game. Look at it that way!

[Amaroq]

anyone who likes computer baseball should own both PureSim and OOTP - especially because both of them are going to get better as time goes by.

Steely and I may have disagreed on some points in this thread [;)], but I'd like to thoroughly endorse this recommendation - if you've enjoyed one, I fully expect that you will enjoy the other as well.

[Steely Glint]

ORIGINAL: ChrisJohnson

Why is it an either one or the other situation [:)]?

It isn't, and both games are so reasonably priced that there's really not much excuse for not owning both.

[Steely Glint]

Amaroq and I agreed on something? Armageddon must be near.

[puresimmer]

See, I knew you guys would find some common ground. [:D]

[Wayllander]

With all the great sim baseball games out (I'm a big fan of ootp ntw) you would think someone would put out a decent (American) football sim. HINT HINT

--way

[ravinhood]

Heh It always boils down to my game is better than your game on the vs threads.

If you like Pure Sim play Pure Sim. If you like OOTPBB play OOTPBB.

I like OOTPBB it's the best simulation baseball game on a computer I've ever played. I don't agree with what a lot of people are saying about it concerning the interface and field design, etc. etc., but, who cares, you aren't going to stop me from playing it or keep me from advertising it's a great and the best simulation to me.

To me what really puts OOTPBB over the top is that you can be fired as a manager if you don't please the owner, you can get married and have sons that can grow up to be players in the game, you get a salary, just that roleplaying element to it adds more to it than just a simulation of baseball.

I also only like to play General Manager, I like to wheel and deal for the players and assign batting and pitching lineups, but, that's it. I simulate everything else out. I could care less about calling pitch by pitch or play by play. I created a Dynasty in the Texas Rangers, Won the World Series 4 years straight. But, when you have Pujols and Dunn on your team you should win a lot.

The only problem I see in OOTPBB is that the AI doesn't really look at players stats and age well enough, I've seen them pay millions to an aging dying in stats pitcher or batter, whereas I unload any and everyone at the age of 33 to 35, wish the computer ai would do this also more often than not and quit wasting such good money on aging dying veterans that might have one more good year in them and then their stats fall like rain.

[ChrisJohnson]

Fortunately their are many sane people that can actually play more than one game at a time [:)]. Nobody can claim to be a bigger supporter of OOTP than I am. I currently run or help run two OOTP leagues - one started in 2001 and the other in 2003. Before that, I wrote many of the first reviews of OOTP. It is a good game. But so is PureSim. Go and make your stadium walls 1,000 feet high and see if that impacts play on the field in OOTP. Want to see where the ball is hit in OOTP? Well, too bad because you can't. Now certainly as myself and others have pointed out, there are quite a few areas where PureSim can improve. Honestly, if I had to own just one, I'd only own OOTP. But, I don't just have to own one. I am happy to support anybody like Shaun who is dedicated to improving this genre.

[ravinhood]

Well hrmmm if you want to get into really one of the best all time computer baseball sims. I think MICRO LEAGUE BASEBALL was darn good and it had little animations also and you could see where the ball was hit. It didn't have all the bells and whistles of today though and certainly no career mode or general manager type play, but, for a replay it was pretty darn good. In fact I used to use it in Las Vegas to make bets on baseball games and did rather well using it.

And Front Page Sports Baseball was an all time favorite also, I do enjoy the animations, but, I want a "one pitch" mode of play if I'm using animations. Reading text or seeing some little blip go out into the field doesn't really do it for me for animations.

[DandricSturm]

ORIGINAL: Silverbullet

I am currently playing the FM Mgr. Gold Demo.
It is very good in managing a team, but not having any idea about the sport of soccer I haven't a clue what is going on.
Loaning out players??
Players being taken from your team to play for "their countries"?
Possible "bug" of injuies up the gazoo?
It is my opinion if you understand the sport of soccer, as well as many Americans understand Baseball and American Football this is probably a very good sport sim.
But as I have already stated I am clueless and cannot enjoy it.

I've been interested in FM for a while even though you couldn't drag me to a live soccer match. I just had to see the world's best sim. I finally got around to buying Worldwide Soccer Manager 2006. I've had it for two days now, I still am not a soccer fan, but all I can say about it is WOW.

[Beach23BoyP]

ORIGINAL: DandricSturm

ORIGINAL: Silverbullet

I am currently playing the FM Mgr. Gold Demo.
It is very good in managing a team, but not having any idea about the sport of soccer I haven't a clue what is going on.
Loaning out players??
Players being taken from your team to play for "their countries"?
Possible "bug" of injuies up the gazoo?
It is my opinion if you understand the sport of soccer, as well as many Americans understand Baseball and American Football this is probably a very good sport sim.
But as I have already stated I am clueless and cannot enjoy it.

I've been interested in FM for a while even though you couldn't drag me to a live soccer match. I just had to see the world's best sim. I finally got around to buying Worldwide Soccer Manager 2006. I've had it for two days now, I still am not a soccer fan, but all I can say about it is WOW.

I've played it for three years. I always buy the English version. It is a great and fabulous sim. In fact, I spend about 60% of my sim time with it, 30% with PureSim and 10% with OOTP.

I'm actually trying to wean myself from FM2006 and go strickly PureSim for two strange reasons:

1) Football Manager 2006 is so complex that I often feel like I'm working another job (as a real soccer manager). Makes it hard to sleep.
2) I watch tons of EPL soccer games on the Fox Soccer Channel. I never watch MLB anymore on TV, although I do attend three or four Astro games a year. Therefore, I actually like to watch soccer and play PureSim for an escape -- but FM2006 is just so good! (BTW, the EPL is tons better than the NFL! Takes about 5 games of watching the EPL to realize why NFL Europe will never make it. The NFL is 33% commericals, 33% huddling and 33% action. The EPL is 95% no-stop action and 5% commericals with, of course, no huddling!)

It is like being a drunk. I stay away from FM2006 for a week or so, but as soon as I boot again it up again I'm drunk for a month.

I still prefer PureSim over OOTP. And even though OOTP is now gravitating itself toward FM2006, I'm not convinced that the FM format is really all that adaptable to OOTP. I've thought that the screens released so far were sometimes difficult to read and that lack of a 2D play by play representation is going to be a real loss.

I just think PureSim is more fun. It grows on you, where as I enjoy (and still do enjoy) OOTP quite a bit, but it doesn't grow on me. IOW, I could forget OOTP -- but I can't forget FM2006 and PureSim!

[Amaroq]

In fact, I spend about 60% of my sim time with it, 30% with PureSim and 10% with OOTP.

That's funny - that's about my breakdown as well - I'd say '10% "other"' for the third category, as the game that winds up placed there varies from year to year. At the moment the game in my third slot is EHM, but I'm really wrapped up in my FM career at the moment.

Just broke out of a 5-game skid where I couldn't score a single goal: there's nothing like getting shut out for nine straight hours of game play to convince you your job is on the line!

[DandricSturm]

I always buy the English version.

I have to ask, what is the difference between Worldwide Soccer Manager and Football Manager? Is there any but the name? The only thing I see Americanized is the title of the game. All finances are in Euros. Heights and weights are metric. Just wondering. The main reason I bought this version is it was the only one I found downloadable.

Since my father was born in Slovakia, I've been playing Slovak teams. First I picked a first division team but there was too much amazement being expressed about me being hired to coach with so little experience. I started over and now I'm managing Tatran Presov in the Slovak second division. We're in third place and have won our first two rounds of the Slovak Cup.

What fun it is when your best player gets called up for a national match and comes back with food poisoning.

[Amaroq]

I have to ask, what is the difference between Worldwide Soccer Manager and Football Manager? Is there any but the name? The only thing I see Americanized is the title of the game. All finances are in Euros. Heights and weights are metric. Just wondering. The main reason I bought this version is it was the only one I found downloadable.

Not very much. The underlying code should be the same, and you can play the English-U.S. or English-U.K. with either CD version. (WSM does not include English-U.K. in the download version.) You should be able to set finances to Euros, pounds, dollars, or whatever your preference is. Likewise, you should be able to set heights and weights to metric or english.

The English-U.S. translation Americanizes a number of things, primarily little word differences: 'coach' instead of 'manager', 'trainer' instead of 'physio', 'color' instead of 'colour', 'truck' instead of 'lorry', that sort of thing. There are also colloquial phrases that get adjusted.

[Amaroq]

too much amazement being expressed about me being hired to coach with so little experience.

One of the nice details about the game: if you, a total unknown, take over, say, Manchester United to start the game, your players are very unsure of you, and you have to win their trust before they'll really give their best effort. Likewise, until you've proven yourself a bit, the board of directors are more likely to sack you! Er.. 'fire you', in the English-US parlance.

[Beach23BoyP]

I'm the gaffer for Havant and Waterlooville -- Conference South. Love those lower leagues!

[DandricSturm]

ORIGINAL: Amaroq

Not very much. The underlying code should be the same, and you can play the English-U.S. or English-U.K. with either CD version. (WSM does not include English-U.K. in the download version.) You should be able to set finances to Euros, pounds, dollars, or whatever your preference is. Likewise, you should be able to set heights and weights to metric or english.

The English-U.S. translation Americanizes a number of things, primarily little word differences: 'coach' instead of 'manager', 'trainer' instead of 'physio', 'color' instead of 'colour', 'truck' instead of 'lorry', that sort of thing. There are also colloquial phrases that get adjusted.

I haven't looked at the preferences to see about those things, I'll probably leave it like it is anyway. As far as the words, I have physios, I'm a manager, etc. I don't see any of those words Americanized in my version.

The only thing that bothers me a little is the dates. 12.9?

[Beach23BoyP]

My Football Manager experiences:

1) I always pre-order from Gameplay UK. I ususally get it within 10 days of release. I, of course, play the Demo Gold while waiting. I don't want "any Americanization" of the game at all. It is -- League Table, not League Standings!
2) I try to keep things "simple" -- I think you can make things too complex. With regard to "tactics" I stick mostly to "team instructions".
3) I've been the manager for Havant & W (Conference South) for almost six seasons total. I prefer to "play-out" (if time permits) all my matches including friendlies and even reserve friendlies.
4) I've lead Havant to the Conference South Playoffs every year and I even got them promoted to the Conference National when playing last year with FM2005.
5) I play a 4-4-2 Diamond. In front of my supporters I "counter-attack" and play a somewhat quick tempo. On the road I slow things down a bit and never take too many chances. I'm happy with draws on the road.
6) If ahead in the last 10 miniutes I really go into a defensive mode -- pass long, play wide, time waste and slow it down. If losing I'll still pass long, but I uptick the the tempo quite a bit and bring on a fresh striker or an offensive mid. But I still try to keep it simple.
7) However, I do instruct my "centerbacks" to always "tightly man mark" at all times. Plus, I always make sure my centerbacks are fairly tall players (6.2 +) who have good heading skills.
8 ) I mostly tell my wingers to "cross deep and often" to my target man. Few strikers in the lower leagues have all that good of dribbling skills or even enough pace. That's why I prefer long passes into the box. But -- I still (try to) keep it simple!
9) I try to only play players who have at least OK morale and are match fit (93% or higher). I try NEVER to play a guy out of position.
10) I have had some success signing a few of my "grey-players". My backup keeper is a grey player and I've got an almost decent striker who was a grey.
11) Big problem with the new patch is keeping everyone happy. I have a big squad (still under wage bill) for a Conference South team and now I've got 3 or 4 unhappy players. They don't like to "rotate"!
12) I rarely post at SI games website.

Finally, as you can tell I'm hopelessly addicted to FM2006. I enjoy the challenge of the lower leagues and because I really don't know any of them from TV -- they all seem like fantasy players.

If Shaun delivers on his almanac and three levels of minors -- then PS2006 may get my attention from FM2006. I "do enjoy" playing PS quite a bit, I enjoy skinning it, I think I'd enjoy making an "add-in" or two, and I know I would really enjoy creating a complete BB "fantasy universe" with unknown players and a feature rich player tracking "reference almanac"!

But -- it will still be a tough decision. I've only got so much free time!